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I’ve been offered a Winchester 70 NOS, unfired, chambered in .308. In general I know that these are well thought of, but this one is a post-64 and I’d like to get a quick education on what I’m looking at. I have not seen it in person yet, but the pics show what looks like pressed checkering on straight grain plain walnut, with a blued action.
Serial number is G1381680
The information that I’ve been finding on the internet is conflicting, but best guess from what I’ve read is either 1977 or post 2003? Does anyone have any knowledge/expertise in this area that might help me determine if this is a decent rifle or not? I know Winchester had quality issues in certain years, and I am trying to determine if this is one of the “problem” rifles, and relative “worth”.
This rifle would be used occasionally as a hunting rifle
November 7, 2015
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I’m thinking it’s not 1977 but I’m just going on a few rifles in my collection. If it’s a push-feed action they are not well thought of but a few I’ve had experience with were and are quite good. I can’t tell from your description which Model 70 you have but it’s safe to say you have a good quality hunting rifle with little or no collector value. If it’s one of the Super Grades they bring a bit more. If the trigger is not suitable Timber makes a damn good one.
Mike
TXGunNut said
I’m thinking it’s not 1977 but I’m just going on a few rifles in my collection. If it’s a push-feed action they are not well thought of but a few I’ve had experience with were and are quite good. I can’t tell from your description which Model 70 you have but it’s safe to say you have a good quality hunting rifle with little or no collector value. If it’s one of the Super Grades they bring a bit more. If the trigger is not suitable Timber makes a damn good one.
Mike
Thanks for the info. I’ll have to ask for pics of the bolt face, as the rifle is in a city 100 or so miles away. The owner says it says “XTR” on the hang tag, and he states he got it at an estate sale so can’t tell me when it was made. All we know for sure is the serial number, “XTR”, and .308 caliber.
Not looking for a collectable in this case, looking for a good hunting rifle.
TXGunNut said
I’m thinking it’s not 1977 but I’m just going on a few rifles in my collection. If it’s a push-feed action they are not well thought of but a few I’ve had experience with were and are quite good.Mike
That’s also the opinion of Frank de Haas, who wrote the best technical, mechanical, study of bolt actions I’ve ever read (Bolt Action Rifles). He says the problems of the ’64 design were corrected in ’68, the improved guns having a G prefix to the ser. no. He was esp. impressed with the smoothness of the G series actions–better than the pre-’64, he said.
clarence said
That’s also the opinion of Frank de Haas, who wrote the best technical, mechanical, study of bolt actions I’ve ever read (Bolt Action Rifles). He says the problems of the ’64 design were corrected in ’68, the improved guns having a G prefix to the ser. no. He was esp. impressed with the smoothness of the G series actions–better than the pre-’64, he said.
Clarence,
The “G” prefix added to the serial number had nothing to do with “improved guns”. The “G” prefix was solely Winchester’s adherence to the GCA of 1968. Winchester added a prefix letter to all of the Models in production at that time with the exception of the Model 94 (its oldest model still in production).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Clarence,
The “G” prefix added to the serial number had nothing to do with “improved guns”. The “G” prefix was solely Winchester’s adherence to the GCA of 1968. Winchester added a prefix letter to all of the Models in production at that time with the exception of the Model 94 (its oldest model still in production).
Bert
Then it must be just a coincidence that the improvements De Haas was talking about (such as the anti-bind bolt) came about at the same time in ’68 that the G was added. He placed the beginning of the change at ser. no. 866,000.
Maybe Lou will add what he knows about these changes in ’68.
I concur that the referenced Winchester Model 70 rifle was, according to best information which I believe reliable, produced in 1977. From the year 1964 to the year of your concern and beyond, all the Winchester Model 70 rifles were “push feed”. The first four years of that production was less than stellar from aesthetics to engineering flaws. The former easy to perceive, the latter from what I understand. By 1968, I also understand these initial problems were solved. One of the engineering advances well publicized instituted a novel receiver-integral guide rail to minimize bolt rotation in in cycling except of course, where rotation became appropriate for locking & unlocking the chambered round. Aesthetics also improved markedly. My 1982 Model 70 XTR lightweight in 7×57 has performed beautifully. It retains finish, looks good and is quite nice. The push feed design is fair game for critique, particularly for those of us who generally prefer the Controlled Round Feed. That said, I suspect it’s true that most of the worlds current production sporting rifles embrace the Push Feed design for its virtues which are definite and well chronicled. More nowadays, “you pay your money & take your choice. The real difference isn’t a positive/negative between these two mutually reliable systems, it’s in the quality of the rifle bearing each. Of course, “used guns”, condition also playing prime role! Other than Winchesters obvious and painful latter sixties ‘blip’, these “post’ Winchester genre all seem fine guns.
The postscript here that in 1991, Winchester also introduced a great deal of confusion as they reached back to utilize a pool of prior unused “G” prefix numbers. These remained unique numbers of course and not duplicating any other existing “G” prefix numbers! But low serial numbers occurring anew after high ones, the perception generating confusion!
Below a write up I did previously concerning the GCA debacle for whatever it may be worth toward elucidation…
Concerning the Federal Gun Control Act (GCA) of the year 1968… Such addressed a variety of perceived problems as tightening certain regulations. One, resulting in affecting not just Winchester, but the majority of contemporary American firearms manufacturers. That problem was one of “ambiguity” and resulting gun identification chaos. From guns which never possessed serial numbers, to “incomplete gun nomenclature”; such defeating any objective to have databases capable of identifying one single, discrete firearm. The goal to have serialization and nomenclature on each gun to absolutely distinguish it from all of the same manufacturer’s other guns. That’s it. In this Winchester was not a prime problem. But the firm wisely decided to tighten up such procedures and the result its system of serial prefixes. Simply identifying the manufacturer and seeing that serial prefix, told exactly the model and assured that set of identifiers was “discrete & unique”. This is what the “68GCA” sought to address. There was no set pattern required by GCA. Just that whatever system, it must render a singular unique firearm for each serial number. Again, emphasizing this requirement was prospective only. That said, ‘other laws/regulations’ address other issues retroactively. The “G” prefix is Winchester allocated to the Model 70 rifles. The final irony, that right now, some significant measure of “garbage in – garbage out mode yet extensively applicable to most law enforcement indices pertaining to pre ‘68 GCA guns!
Not offering any guidance in this Post. Just my take.
Best & Happy Holidays!
John
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