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Winchester Model 65 in .218 Bee
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July 27, 2021 - 3:32 pm
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Hi All, I am bidding at a Winchester model 65 in .218 BEE on an auction site. The Serial number as reported is 1006190. They aren’t showing pictures of the barrel top or the the bottom of the receiver showing the serial number, which makes me a little suspicious. 

Bert mentioned in a previous post, that 65’s in 218 BEE usually had a bolt peep sight. This rifle does not have that, nor does it appear to be drilled for one.            IMG_3748.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_3749.JPGImage Enlarger

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Richard Pike

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July 27, 2021 - 3:41 pm
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Ask the auction house or email the private seller that you want photographs of the areas that depict the serial number and barrel markings, or any other areas desired.

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July 27, 2021 - 4:12 pm
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I noticed the other 65 in that auction is not drilled either… 

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July 27, 2021 - 5:46 pm
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Richard Pike said
Hi All, I am bidding at a Winchester model 65 in .218 BEE on an auction site. The Serial number as reported is 1006190. They aren’t showing pictures of the barrel top or the the bottom of the receiver showing the serial number, which makes me a little suspicious. 

Bert mentioned in a previous post, that 65’s in 218 BEE usually had a bolt peep sight. This rifle does not have that, nor does it appear to be drilled for one.            IMG_3748.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_3749.JPGImage Enlarger

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Richard Pike  

I would ask for pictures showing the top and bottom of the receiver frame.  There were a relatively small number of Model 65 218 Bee rifles that were not manufactured to mount a No. 98C bolt peep sight.  That stated, there are also an equal number of Model 65 rifles that were altered to the 218 Bee cartridge (barrel swap) and are fakes.  The clue is how or if they will properly cycle the 218 Bee cartridge from the magazine to the chamber and out again.

Bert

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July 28, 2021 - 12:23 am
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The other model 65 in the auction is a 32 WCF, so is less likely to have the bolt mounted peep sight.  The front sight does not look quite correct to me or may be correct for an early 65? Serial number 1001151 indicates 1930, which would be very early for a model 65.

Any thoughts? 

Kevin

https://www.proxibid.com/Firearms-Military-Artifacts/Firearms/Winchester-Model-65-32-WCF-Rifle/lotInformation/62641024

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July 28, 2021 - 3:35 am
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Colsuper said
The other model 65 in the auction is a 32 WCF, so is less likely to have the bolt mounted peep sight.  The front sight does not look quite correct to me or may be correct for an early 65? Serial number 1001151 indicates 1930, which would be very early for a model 65.

Any thoughts? 

Kevin

https://www.proxibid.com/Firearms-Military-Artifacts/Firearms/Winchester-Model-65-32-WCF-Rifle/lotInformation/62641024  

Kevin,

S/N 1001151 is a 1933 production rifle, not 1930.  The Model 65 serial numbers actually began in the 999600 range (which was late 1932).  I currently have (34) Model 65 rifles verified in my research survey with a S/N < 1001151. 

In regards to the front sight, some of the early production Model 65 ramp sights did not have a groove milled in them for a sight hood.  It is ultra rare to find a No. 98C bolt peep sight on a Model 65 rifle in caliber 25-20 WCF or 32 WCF.

Bert

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July 29, 2021 - 1:30 am
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Thank you, Bert.  The 1930 date came from the resources tab on the WACA site.  The 1933 makes a lot more sense and I appreciate knowing that the early ramp sights were not milled for a hood.  

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July 29, 2021 - 1:46 am
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I

Colsuper said
Thank you, Bert.  The 1930 date came from the resources tab on the WACA site.  The 1933 makes a lot more sense and I appreciate knowing that the early ramp sights were not milled for a hood.    

I will have to investigate the Resource tab and get it updated.

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July 29, 2021 - 3:44 pm
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Hope this helps.  The bolts modified for the peep sight have extensive machining done.  They are not just tapped.  I have a late 92 carbine with a bolt peep and the hooded ramp front sight.  I have seen one 92 rifle with the bolt peep.  “Parts clean up” or “Frankenchester”?  We will never know.  No provenance.   RDB

BOLT-W-PEEP-RELIEF-001.JPGImage EnlargerBOLT-W-PEEP-RELIEF-002.JPGImage EnlargerBOLT-W-PEEP-RELIEF-003.JPGImage EnlargerBOLT-W-PEEP-RELIEF-004.JPGImage Enlarger 

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August 2, 2021 - 2:40 pm
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Bert H. said

I would ask for pictures showing the top and bottom of the receiver frame.  There were a relatively small number of Model 65 218 Bee rifles that were not manufactured to mount a No. 98C bolt peep sight.  That stated, there are also an equal number of Model 65 rifles that were altered to the 218 Bee cartridge (barrel swap) and are fakes.  The clue is how or if they will properly cycle the 218 Bee cartridge from the magazine to the chamber and out again.

Bert  

Hi Bert, Thank you for your help on this. I received an email back from Angela Bertalot at Cody Firearms, telling me no records exist for the rifle in question. She said the serial number I supplied to her fell into a gap in their records. Therefore, I assume I can neither prove or disprove that this Model 65 left the factory in the 218 BEE configuration. Other than not having the bolt peep sight, there is no way of being sure. It is either a very rare model or a fake.

By the way, I asked for additional pictures and got no response.

Thanks again for your help. Richard

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May 4, 2024 - 12:11 am
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Richard, late on the reply but for me it would depend on price(risk vrs reward). I would do the same and ask questions here on the forum but if the price is north of $4-$5k, I’m not sure I would risk it being a very rare model or original without concrete confirmation. Jmo

 Rick C 

   

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