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March 31, 2009
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So, if I ordered an 1894 I could order it in a 38-55 HV chambering and they would automatically give me a better barrel? I understand that at certain dates in time the steel got better but how would they know I was going to shoot a HV round in a 38-55?
November 1, 2013
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Chuck said …how would they know I was going to shoot a HV round in a 38-55?
Impossible of course, & another example of Winchester parsimony. If the factory really believed the HV load should only be fired in a nickel brl, then all brls should have been nickel after the HV load was introduced.
April 15, 2005
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Chuck said
So, if I ordered an 1894 I could order it in a 38-55 HV chambering and they would automatically give me a better barrel? I understand that at certain dates in time the steel got better but how would they know I was going to shoot a HV round in a 38-55?
Yes, that is essentially what would have happened if you ordered a Model 1894 in 32-40 or 38-55 for the WHV cartridge. In addition to getting the “better” Nickel Steel barrel, you would also get different sights. Instead of a 26A, you would get a 26B rear sight.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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clarence said
Impossible of course, & another example of Winchester parsimony. If the factory really believed the HV load should only be fired in a nickel brl, then all brls should have been nickel after the HV load was introduced.
That was not what Winchester believed, and it was definitely not the case or the truth.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 14, 2022
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Bert are there any numbers in the survey on how many were ordered or had nickel steel 38-55 or 32-40 barrels prior to 1910?
Rick C
April 15, 2005
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RickC said
Bert are there any numbers in the survey on how many were ordered or had nickel steel 38-55 or 32-40 barrels prior to 1910?
I have not (yet) tried to sort my survey data that deeply. Currently, I have 9,441 Model 1894s documented in the survey in the 354000 – 1079689 range (May 13th, 1907 – December 21st, 1931, with nothing in the May 1895 – May 1907 (letterable) timeframe. There most certainly were a fair number of Nickel Steel barreled 32-40 and 38-55 in the letterable range. Based on my observations, Nickel Steel barrels for the two black powder cartridges were not rare. The term “uncommon” is more accurate.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
June 26, 2013
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Chuck said
So, if I ordered an 1894 I could order it in a 38-55 HV chambering and they would automatically give me a better barrel? I understand that at certain dates in time the steel got better but how would they know I was going to shoot a HV round in a 38-55?
I have an 1894 chambered in 38-55 manufactured in 1906 that was ordered and letters with a nickel steel barrel:
Don
February 11, 2018
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Referring to original 38-55 smokeless loads.
The 38-55 loads need to be separated into three classes;
- Black Powder – black powder
- Low-Pressure smokeless powder – “Bulk for Bulk” smokeless powder -Dupont “No. 1” types – pressures below 35,000 lbs and velocities below 1,750fps with jacketed bullets.
- High-Pressure smokeless powder – “Dense” smokeless powder – Dupont “Lightning” types – pressures above 35,000 to 40,000 lbs and velocities above 1,750fps with jacketed bullets.
Using W.A. .30-cal. smokeless powder in the 38-55 with any barrel could be disastrous, and should only be used in the 30-40 types and the 30-06 types.
The need for “Special Barrels” is only needed for the High-Pressure smokeless loads, per Winchester.
Dated 1899
“Our 38-55 rifle will not be injured when 38-55 smokeless cartridges of our make are used. The bullet will not harm the rifling. Smokeless powder is more difficult to clean than black. Where smokeless powder cartridges are made to take the place of black powder cartridges in guns which were intended for black powder, such smokeless powder is used as will give the same pressures and same velocities as were obtained with black powder in the black powder cartridges intended for the gun originally. We do the best we can to have the combination give the same velocity as before, which it would be difficult to get same accuracy.”
Outdoor Life, April 1915
“W.A. [W.A. .30-cal.] and Lightning powders contained about 25 per cent…nitroglycerine…”…The presence of nitroglycerine enables us to obtain high velocities with minimum chamber pressures, but the heat of the gases causes serious erosion in the barrels if used at pressures above 35,000 to 40,000 pounds per square inch.” ~Outdoor Life, April 1915
Marlin Company, 1904
“The company is now arranging a line of their famous repeating rifles, Model 1893, to be known among the trade Grade “B”. These rifles will be in every respect the same as the regular Model 1893 with the exception that the barrels will be made of the highest obtainable grade of soft gun barrel steel instead of their “Special Smokeless Steel”. The intention is to meet the large demand for a high-class, carefully made arm on the part of many shooters who are not sufficiently interested in the smokeless steel barrels to pay for the extra cost. The new line is, of course, not intended for high power smokeless ammunition and its use in this grade is not advised by the makers: only black powder ammunition and equivalent loads such as low power smokeless should be used. The 32-40 and 38-55 sizes only will be made in this grade.”
March 14, 2022
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Bryan Austin said
Referring to original 38-55 smokeless loads.The 38-55 loads need to be separated into three classes;
- Black Powder – black powder
- Low-Pressure smokeless powder – “Bulk for Bulk” smokeless powder -Dupont “No. 1” types – pressures below 35,000 lbs and velocities below 1,750fps with jacketed bullets.
- High-Pressure smokeless powder – “Dense” smokeless powder – Dupont “Lightning” types – pressures above 35,000 to 40,000 lbs and velocities above 1,750fps with jacketed bullets.
Using W.A. .30-cal. smokeless powder in the 38-55 with any barrel could be disastrous, and should only be used in the 30-40 types and the 30-06 types.
The need for “Special Barrels” is only needed for the High-Pressure smokeless loads, per Winchester.
Rick C
February 11, 2018
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Yes!
My bet is that the second one is loaded with Dupont No. 1 low-pressure “bulk for bulk” low-pressure powder and the Yellow label is loaded with dense “bulky” Sharpshooter low-pressure smokeless powder.
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