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My observations are that appreciation for the model 64 over the last few decades has been flat or if it did rise prior to the recession, valuation is right where it was a couple of decades ago. Other antique models, although having backed off of pre-recession highs, do appreciate, generally. Why? The workmanship is good to excellent, it is a pre 1964 Winchester (the ones I am referencing) and it IS a Winchester!
I collected 64’s for several years and sold them all to by antique Winchesters. I like case colors, octagon barrels, and crescent butts. Antique guns are much easier to ship or sell interstate, no license required. Nice antique 1894’s took their place in my collection, maybe I wasn’t the only one. T/R
I watched for a nice pre war M64 to come up for sale, either standard or Deluxe. I found all the usual gun sites to be seriously lacking in pre war M64’s until I spotted a near to mint 1936 vintage standard M64 # 1117360, PR dated 11-02-1936. Priced a little high, but exactly the rifle I was searching for. I bought it and never looked back. I have a substantial M1894/M94 collection, and wanted a nice M64 to go with my two M55’s. There does seem to be a shortage of folks to collect these. Just like the M53’s or even the M71’s. The M53’s and M65’s also seem to be ignored as scarce as they are. Most folks would rather have a nice M92 rifle or carbine even though the M53 is much rarer, especially in 44 caliber. I love my pre war M64. It has the pre war worksmanship just as an early M1894 rifle or carbine. If you collect lever guns, you need a nice one. Pre war preferred, but much harder to find. Big Larry
I prefer the pre war model 64’s, and have three pre-war carbines, one in each of the calibers, .30wcf (1935) .32ws, (1937) and 25-35. (1937). The .30 and .32 are “deluxe” carbines.
This is a picture of my pre war 25-35 carbine.
Al
At a college gun show a few years back, yes, at a college, I had the opportunity to buy a minty M64 Deluxe Carbine in 25-35. Instaed, I used my $$$ and bought a real nice 1913 vintage M1894 SRC for my wife, thinking it was made in 1912, the year her Mom was born. I passed on the M64 and have since regretted it, but I get a smile everytime I look in my safe at that great M1894 SRC. It is 100% correct down to the patented front sight blade. Even as rare as that M64 was, if I had it to do all over, I would still pick that beautiful M1894 30-30. My wife has since passed, but it was her carbine and I will never part with it. Your M64’s are all very nice. Thanks for sharing. Big Larry
So, what I surmised appears indeed to be correct.
One would expect a non-antique Winchester that doesn’t have the allure of an 1866, 1873, 1886, 1892, 1894 or Model 70 to at least appreciate with wages. But, then again, a working wage has gone nowhere in the last generation. Perhaps, so, too, as any appreciation in valuation of the Model 64.
Maybe it is that the Model 53, 55, 64, and perhaps to a lesser degree the models 65 & 71 are the type of firearm bought by an individual who appreciates fine firearms, mostly, but has a family to feed, a mortgage to pay, etc., whereas the true antique Winchesters with condition are investment grade and can appreciate as the individuals investing in them can pay any asking price as their income is not tied to a living wage?
This, perhaps if wages increase in this country at some point, so to can the Model 64, and some of the others, appreciate at at least the rate of inflation???
It might be simply how many guns are available and how many people what them, supply and demand. That said, I have a very limited amount of money to spend and I will not pay “any asking price” ever. T/R
mrcvs said
So, what I surmised appears indeed to be correct.One would expect a non-antique Winchester that doesn’t have the allure of an 1866, 1873, 1886, 1892, 1894 or Model 70 to at least appreciate with wages. But, then again, a working wage has gone nowhere in the last generation. Perhaps, so, too, as any appreciation in valuation of the Model 64.
Maybe it is that the Model 53, 55, 64, and perhaps to a lesser degree the models 65 & 71 are the type of firearm bought by an individual who appreciates fine firearms, mostly, but has a family to feed, a mortgage to pay, etc., whereas the true antique Winchesters with condition are investment grade and can appreciate as the individuals investing in them can pay any asking price as their income is not tied to a living wage?
This, perhaps if wages increase in this country at some point, so to can the Model 64, and some of the others, appreciate at at least the rate of inflation???
A real nice M53 in 44-40 can and will surpass the value of a standard M1892 or carbine in some cases. They are very scarce, especially in great condition. I have a fairly nice M53 in 44-40 and paid dearly for it. Much more than my M1892 44 rifles and carbine. I may have paid a premium as the serial number is #507. A real nice M65 or M71 will cost more. Notice, I said real nice. A lot of them are reblued Swiss Cheese types. There are many M64’s on the Net for sale, but very few are pre war. The worksmanship on the pre war rifles is much better, but I don’t think the market is good for either.
Generally, the more you pay for a fine Winchester of any vintage, the better the return when you sell. The trick is to,”buy low, sell high”. Big Larry
I can attest to the model 65…..Prices seem to be getting up there. Just about any 65 that is not trash commands at least 2k….for some that may be pocket change, but to most that is a lot of money. Pristine 65s 4k and up……The one i just acquired is definitely above average condition and was lucky enough to get it at a really good price.
Aside from GunsInternational, which has the most 65’s to compare price/condition…..What do you guys think the going rate for a “pristine” model 65 in 25-20 is? Pristine meaning maybe a box of shells through it? 95% or better, depending on who is inspecting it.
Okay, perhaps the Models 53 & 65 have fared better over time than the 64, but clearly the Model 64 is not appreciated relative to all the other pre-64 lever guns. This is quite evident.
November 7, 2015
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I’ve been hearing that Winchesters as a whole are a bit off in recent months but haven’t seen enough to say. If this were the stock market I’d say it was a buyers’ market.
Big Larry said
There are many M64’s on the Net for sale, but very few are pre war. The worksmanship on the pre war rifles is much better, but I don’t think the market is good for either.
Big Larry
I have to disagree with you in regards to pre-war Model 64s being scarce. In my ongoing research, I have surveyed 2,230 Model 64s, and of that number, 1,012 of them are pre-war. That amounts to just slightly more than 45% of them being pre-war.
From my experience, the collector market is good for the Model 64 (pre & post war), and especially for the less common calibers (25-35 WCF & 219 Zipper) and the “Carbine” variant. The biggest issue is the rising number of Fakes out there.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Didn’t say scarce. Most of the rifles in your survey are in collections. Having perused the Internet for some time, I find absolutely NO pre war M64’s for sale. That’s why I jumped on mine. In past years, I have owned several M64’s including the .219 Zipper, one drippy mint 30-30 standard and also a drippy mint 30-30 deluxe with original swivels. All were pre war. They are relatively hard to find, but generally in good shape. There are many post war rifles for sale. Big Larry
I watched a guy peel off $1000, maybe it was $1200, for a pristine deluxe 64 about twenty years back. Great amount of appreciation there where the market value is concerned, but I hear you on your point. Offhand, though, I think that the increase in market value for the Model 64 – those in excellent condition – over the past twenty years shows a considerable increase, but not as much as, say, a post 1940, pre-64 Model 94 in like condition.
James
Big Larry said
Didn’t say scarce. Most of the rifles in your survey are in collections. Having perused the Internet for some time, I find absolutely NO pre war M64’s for sale. That’s why I jumped on mine. In past years, I have owned several M64’s including the .219 Zipper, one drippy mint 30-30 standard and also a drippy mint 30-30 deluxe with original swivels. All were pre war. They are relatively hard to find, but generally in good shape. There are many post war rifles for sale. Big Larry
Larry,
You implied that they are scarce when you stated “but very few are pre war”. Further, you are making an erroneous assumption concerning where I have found or seen most of the 1,012 pre-war Model 64s… most of them have been in auctions, the internet, or at gun shows. Less than 5% of them were found in collections.
There are at least (10) pre-war Model 64s for sale on Gunbroker at this very minute.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/709051418
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/710316547
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/710491633
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/710376835
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/709568709
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/709918481
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/709756335
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/706216795
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/708714659
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/707499306
Simply put, pre-war Model 64s are neither “hard to find” or scarce… there are lots of them out there. Like you, I do agree that they are better quality guns than the post war specimens.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert, I do not care for auctions very much and try to stay clear of Gun Broker. I do frequent Guns Intl. just about every day and buy most of my guns there. I have not actively been seeking out M64’s lately as I have one very nice specimen. I really don’t collect them as I do not collect M55’s either, but I have some to fill the holes in my M94 collection, which has waned since I got into 22’s. I was just basing my assumptions on the Guns Intl. site. I should know better than to “assume” anyway.
Can you give me a PR on M1873 # 325880 B? Thanks, Big Larry
Big Larry said
Can you give me a PR on M1873 # 325880 B? Thanks, Big Larry
I do not do much in the way of research on the Models 1866, 1873, or 1876. All the closer that I can get you, is that it was serialized sometime late in the year 1889. Serial number 326256 was the last Model 1873 serial number applied in the year 1889, and it was just (376) after your Model 1873. I suggest that you contact the CFM records office and order up a factory letter for it.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I understand what Bert is saying about the Model 64 not being scarce or hard to find but I certainly agree with Big Larry, tuck away a nice one while you can – do it because you like them, not because it might make you some money down the road. See attached picture of 94 family:
Model 1894 32-40
Model 55 30 WCF
Model 64 219 Zipper
Bert H. said
I do not do much in the way of research on the Models 1866, 1873, or 1876. All the closer that I can get you, is that it was serialized sometime late in the year 1889. Serial number 326256 was the last Model 1873 serial number applied in the year 1889, and it was just (376) after your Model 1873. I suggest that you contact the CFM records office and order up a factory letter for it.
Bert
Thanks Bert. Payday is next Wednesday and I will be sending for a letter. Also, getting one for my M1903. Big Larry
In this subject feeling the ‘old crow’ trying to soar with eagles! Just my personal observations over four or so decades. Never to see very many Model 64 at all. Of those seen, a high percentage seemed to be with common modifications. Also, perhaps a higher percentage in 32 WS and perhaps less desirable within those decades.
Again, just a personal take.
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