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June 26, 2013
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I picked this 1894 up from Cabelas about 10 years ago. Shortly after purchase, I ordered a letter from Cody and was surprised to see it originated as 25-35 caliber and different sights. There are 2 R&R’s listed on the letter–assuming the barrel and sights swap occurred at this time?? Anyway, to all the Winchester purist collectors, what would this rifle be worth if in the original configuration vs. it’s present configuration? Bore condition is excellent / like new. Rifle is in beautiful high (90%+) condition and has “antique” status. All opinions welcome.
Thanks,
Don
April 15, 2005
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Don,
What exactly is marked on the underneath side of the barrel that is currently on this rifle?
The thing that would really bother me about this rifle is that it letters with very special sights (for a Model 1894) but they are no longer on the rifle.
If the barrel is marked with either one of the R&R work order numbers listed on the letter, then I would be perfectly content with it not matching the original caliber.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
June 26, 2013
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Bert H. said
Don,What exactly is marked on the underneath side of the barrel that is currently on this rifle?
The thing that would really bother me about this rifle is that it letters with very special sights (for a Model 1894) but they are no longer on the rifle.
If the barrel is marked with either one of the R&R work order numbers listed on the letter, then I would be perfectly content with it not matching the original caliber.
Bert
Hi Bert,
I remember removing the forearm years ago, but neglected to take a photo for some reason. Anyway, was hoping to find “J.P.P.” and a work order number, but unfortunately nothing of that sort.
Don
April 15, 2005
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Don,
It might be worthwhile to check it again. With an octagon barrel. the markings were not always stamped on the bottom (6 o’clock) barrel flat. I have often found them on the 7:30 flat.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
June 26, 2013
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Bert H. said
Don,It might be worthwhile to check it again. With an octagon barrel. the markings were not always stamped on the bottom (6 o’clock) barrel flat. I have often found them on the 7:30 flat.
Bert
Hi Bert,
I carefully removed the forearm and unfortunately found nothing other than the usual markings and stamps–see photos.
Don
April 15, 2005
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Don,
The barrel is suspicious due to the lack of a caliber marking on the underside. I am leaning strongly towards it being a modern (non-factory) replacement piece, almost certainly not a factory replacement in the year 1898 or 1899.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
June 26, 2013
Online
Bert H. said
Don,The barrel is suspicious due to the lack of a caliber marking on the underside. I am leaning strongly towards it being a modern (non-factory) replacement piece, almost certainly not a factory replacement in the year 1898 or 1899.
Bert
Bert,
What about the other stampings (VP for violent proof, NS, U, star, etc.) on the underside? Aren’t these normally found on the underside of factory barrels? The barrel looks to match the rest of the rifle perfectly with no added “W/P” proof marks, etc. consistent with an R&R in 1898 / 1899. I would expect to see the W/P proof marks added at least to the barrel if the R&R’s occurred 1905 or later. Also, when holding the barrel under bright LED light, it has that plummy reddish hue you always like to see on vintage original barrels. All exterior markings, address, and caliber stamps are correctly located for that timeframe as well. I agree it is a bit odd that the caliber stamp is absent from the underside, but it is present on the top flat forward of the receiver as it should be. Another mystery I suppose.
Don
April 15, 2005
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Don,
I have not ever (yet) encountered an early production Model 1894 with a barrel marked “94” on the underside. The other stamped markings you mention could easily be replicated.
The fact that it does not have a caliber marking on the underside of the barrel and no markings to indicate it was an R&R replacement barrel, there are simply too many red flags for me to ever be comfortable describing it as an authentic Winchester Model 1894 rifle. If is forever destined to be an “excuse” rifle.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
June 26, 2013
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Thanks Bert, I appreciate your opinion/evaluation. Out of curiosity, I pulled the forearm off of my model 1894 half magazine takedown chambered in 38-55 serial number 24498 and found the same “94” marking, along with the “VP” in an oval, a “W”, a star, and with the 38-55 caliber stamp. Comparing this with the subject rifle at the beginning of this thread, it seems the only anomaly is the missing caliber stamp. Does this change your opinion at all? See below photos.
Don
April 15, 2005
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deerhunter said
Does this change your opinion at all? See below photos.Don
No, it doesn’t change my opinion of the rifle by nearly enough. It will forever have questions that cannot be answered or explained away.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 17, 2011
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I believe the barrel is factory made at Winchester. But was Not on the gun when first produced. It was added later on.
December 9, 2002
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I’m trying to imagine a large operation like Winchester, in they’re huge complex, making and producing barrels. With racks and racks of barrels being produced, it seems pretty logical to me to stamp the caliber on the barrel when it was made. How else would you know what caliber it was without re checking every time with the proper gauges , which could become time consuming, and a waste of time, in itself. I’m just not sure on this one.
Anthony
November 19, 2006
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The two R&R’s intrigue me. I think most sellers wouldn’t give a second thought to advertising the rifle as having the barrel switched by Winchester. And, a large percentage of buyers would readily accept that. Our group here is meticulously cautious with how we evaluate rifles.
Let me add to say, in my experience, the pinnacle of accessible Winchester knowledge is on this forum 
June 26, 2013
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Anthony said
I’m trying to imagine a large operation like Winchester, in they’re huge complex, making and producing barrels. With racks and racks of barrels being produced, it seems pretty logical to me to stamp the caliber on the barrel when it was made. How else would you know what caliber it was without re checking every time with the proper gauges , which could become time consuming, and a waste of time, in itself. I’m just not sure on this one.
Anthony
Hi Anthony,
In this case, the barrel is stamped 30 W.C.F. on the top flat just forward of the receiver. It’s just missing the duplicated caliber stamp on the underside of the barrel. Everything else, in my opinion, screams period Winchester factory-produced and swapped during one of the R&R’s. Regardless, it’s a beautiful rifle with some nice features and also an antique. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon.
Don
November 19, 2006
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deerhunter said
Anthony said
I’m trying to imagine a large operation like Winchester, in they’re huge complex, making and producing barrels. With racks and racks of barrels being produced, it seems pretty logical to me to stamp the caliber on the barrel when it was made. How else would you know what caliber it was without re checking every time with the proper gauges , which could become time consuming, and a waste of time, in itself. I’m just not sure on this one.
Anthony
Hi Anthony,
In this case, the barrel is stamped 30 W.C.F. on the top flat just forward of the receiver. It’s just missing the duplicated caliber stamp on the underside of the barrel. Everything else, in my opinion, screams period Winchester factory-produced and swapped during one of the R&R’s. Regardless, it’s a beautiful rifle with some nice features and also an antique. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon.
Don
I agree that it is a beautiful rifle with much going for it. Antique status, takedown, pistol grip checkered, very pleasing condition…
November 7, 2015
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Beautiful rifle, indeed! It’s a shame that in a climate of fake guns an honest gun will sometimes have the shadow of “excuse gun”. A gun that doesn’t agree with the ledger will always invite extra scrutiny and unfortunately the red flags are there. I think, given the circumstances, that it is an honest gun but there isn’t much to support the factory barrel swap theory and a cautious, discriminating collector will likely shy away.
Mike
July 8, 2012
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Don,
That is one beautiful model 1894 and I would be proud to own it. In the first and second picture of the barrel underside markings, I see SN with 27 below that. Does this have anything to do with the serial number of the receiver beings the serial number starts with 27?
Al
September 22, 2011
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Here’s my entry in the same category. A Winchester 1885 rifle in .32-40 with half octagon barrel that letters with full octagon. And it also lacks the proper markings under the barrel. Bought 32 years ago when it was the best I could afford. As I have become more aware of condition, it’s one I would have sold by now had it lettered properly. But what it would bring because of this despite the R & R, I enjoy it far more than the dollar figure it would likely bring at auction.
December 9, 2002
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deerhunter said
Anthony said
I’m trying to imagine a large operation like Winchester, in they’re huge complex, making and producing barrels. With racks and racks of barrels being produced, it seems pretty logical to me to stamp the caliber on the barrel when it was made. How else would you know what caliber it was without re checking every time with the proper gauges , which could become time consuming, and a waste of time, in itself. I’m just not sure on this one.
Anthony
Hi Anthony,
In this case, the barrel is stamped 30 W.C.F. on the top flat just forward of the receiver. It’s just missing the duplicated caliber stamp on the underside of the barrel. Everything else, in my opinion, screams period Winchester factory-produced and swapped during one of the R&R’s. Regardless, it’s a beautiful rifle with some nice features and also an antique. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon.
Don
Don, I agree as I probably should have included the top caliber designation in my post. Yes it is a beautiful rifle and I wouldn’t discount the possibility of a forgotten stamping on the underside of the barrel. Quality control and or human error is a possibility as we’ve seen in the past.
Thanks for sharing, as many of us would be proud to own it, I’m sure!
Anthony
December 21, 2006
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Don ; I like Your gun , even with the excuses. I don’t take the information on “factory letters” as gospel, I have a few guns that don’t match the letter to a tee. This hasn’t worried Me to much knowing the gun is correct and the letter is in error, and I’m not saying that is the case with Your gun, and I would want to have it “in My hands” before I would offer an opinion, but some times the “letter” errors are just plain obvious. There are several mis calibre stamps documented. Yes it’s always nice when everything matches up to the “factory letter”, but sometimes a person has to use Their own “hands on” experience to make a judgement call. Here’s a couple examples: ser#335378, no mention of Pistol grip or s.g.b. or rubber b.p.. Ser# 137206 again no mention of the pistol grip, but it does mention the rubber plate. I have some other models with similar omissions or conflicting information, one 1876 deluxe in particular with several dicrepancies, gun to letter, that I’m still trying to cypher the ledger entry. I have a few similar but not in that exact configuration, 1/2 o.b., r.b., s.g.b. , etc. with a plain stock and 1/2 mag. I typically pay in the $5,000.00 – $6,000.00 Cdn. unfortunatly that would translate in the $3500.00 to $4500.00 U.S. It would cost a few bucks to replace the lettered sights on You gun though, which I would endevor to do, if it were Mine. Let Me know if and when You’re going to part with it. 
My humble opinion only.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
