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June 24, 2015
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Does anyone have a reference to the number of short barreled model 1894’s were made (within the available records of course)? I am wondering how many 20″, 1/2 octagon rifles were made.
May 2, 2009
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I would say that would be in the “ARMAX” THE JOURNAL OF THE CODY FIREARMS MUSEUM, Volume V, published in 1995 that has the survey of the 94 records but its at home.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
April 15, 2005
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The ARMAX survey lists how many in each barrel length, but no mention is made of the specific number for each barrel contour, or the caliber of the Short Rifles. Somewhere in a older topic I posted the chart show in the ARMAX survey numbers.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hi,
In my humble opinion , I would state none were made in that configuration. There would be only 4-5 inches ahead of the forearm. I have never seen a picture of one or heard of one. Why would someone order a ’94 like that? Did one like this come into your shop?
Walter
April 15, 2005
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wallyb said
Hi,
In my humble opinion , I would state none were made in that configuration. There would be only 4-5 inches ahead of the forearm. I have never seen a picture of one or heard of one. Why would someone order a ’94 like that? Did one like this come into your shop?
Walter
Walter,
And you would be incorrect. The forend stock on the 20-inch rifles is just 8 3/8″ long, and the 1/2 octagon barrel is almost exactly half length. Additionally, in my ongoing research survey, I have found five 20-inch 1/2 octagon barrels, and the one rifle with a 19 1/2″ barrel has a 1/2 octagon barrel that letters. I suspect that at least several dozen 20-inch 1/2 octagon barrels exist, and it could be substantially more than that.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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Here is the ARMAX Survey barrel length chart…
With 2,980 that are in the letterable range, and at least that many more in the 354000 – 1150000 serial number range, my best guess is that at least 300 20-inch 1/2 octagon barreled Short Rifles exist. As I mentioned, I have surveyed (5) thus far.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 26, 2011
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Here are 12 of them that I have in my survey ranging from 1898-1918. They only represent about 4% of my total short rifle survey of all barrel lengths.
| S.N. | DOM | BR LGTH | FOR LGTH | BR SHAPE | MAG | TD | ELW | OPTIONS | BUTT | CAL |
| 42812 | 1898 | 20 | 8 3/8 | 1/2 OB | 1/2 | PG-CK “I” | SB | 30 WCF | ||
| 67484 | 1899 | 20 | 8 3/8 | 1/2 OB | FM | ELW | PG | SB | 30 WCF | |
| 116573 | 1901 | 20 | 8 3/8 | 1/2 OB | FM | TD | PG-CK | Swiss | 30 WCF | |
| 122466 | 1901 | 20 | 9 3/8 | 1/2 OB | FM | TD | CB | 30 WCF | ||
| 145452 | 1902 | 20 | 8 3/8 | 1/2 OB | FM | TD | PG-CK | SB | 30 WCF | |
| 203017 | 1903 | 20 | 8 3/8 | 1/2 OB | FM | TD | CB | 32 WS | ||
| 278293 | 1905 | 20 | 9 3/8 | 1/2 OB | FM | TD | Saddle Ring | Carb | N/A | |
| 418351 | 1908 | 20 | 9 3/8 | 1/2 OB | FM | CB | N/A | |||
| 448457 | 1909 | 20 | 8 3/8 | 1/2 OB | FM | SB | 30 WCF | |||
| 580553 | 1912 | 20 | 8 3/8 | 1/2 OB | FM | CB | 30 WCF | |||
| 874265 | 1918 | 20 | N/A | 1/2 OB | 1/2 | CB | 25-35 | |||
| 879368 | 1918 | 20 | 8 3/8 | 1/2 OB | 2/3 | TD | Saddle Ring | CB | 38-55 |
~Gary~
June 24, 2015
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pdog72 said
Here are 12 of them that I have in my survey ranging from 1898-1918. They only represent about 4% of my total short rifle survey of all barrel lengths.
S.N. DOM BR LGTH FOR LGTH BR SHAPE MAG TD ELW OPTIONS BUTT CAL 42812 1898 20 8 3/8 1/2 OB 1/2 PG-CK “I” SB 30 WCF 67484 1899 20 8 3/8 1/2 OB FM ELW PG SB 30 WCF 116573 1901 20 8 3/8 1/2 OB FM TD PG-CK Swiss 30 WCF 122466 1901 20 9 3/8 1/2 OB FM TD CB 30 WCF 145452 1902 20 8 3/8 1/2 OB FM TD PG-CK SB 30 WCF 203017 1903 20 8 3/8 1/2 OB FM TD CB 32 WS 278293 1905 20 9 3/8 1/2 OB FM TD Saddle Ring Carb N/A 418351 1908 20 9 3/8 1/2 OB FM CB N/A 448457 1909 20 8 3/8 1/2 OB FM SB 30 WCF 580553 1912 20 8 3/8 1/2 OB FM CB 30 WCF 874265 1918 20 N/A 1/2 OB 1/2 CB 25-35 879368 1918 20 8 3/8 1/2 OB 2/3 TD Saddle Ring CB 38-55
Pdog, Are these found from the original records, or just rifles you have seen and added? Seems like a relatively scarce variation.
July 7, 2011
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Austin”s Guns
Available records from Cody only go to 353,999. So finding short rifles in that range limits you. If you would like to see photos of s/n 448457 included in pdog’s data, 20″ 1/2 octagon barrel, I could send them to you by e-mail.
Paul
January 26, 2011
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“Pdog, Are these found from the original records, or just rifles you have seen and added? Seems like a relatively scarce variation”
Austin – As with most of the surveys being done, they are a combination of guns found at shows, online auction sites, and fellow WACA members contributions. To be honest, I don’t spend as much time on this as guys like Michael and Bert, but I’ve still come up with a large enough number of them to see some trends. Thanks again to Paul aka 94 shorties for sharing all of his info to get me started.
~Gary~
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