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I have Model 1892 serial number 456599 with what I thought were British proof marks, but after finding a link to an array of London and Birmingham proof mark mages, the three on this rifle don’t match any of them. Or, the differences aren’t important. I’ve found other references that depict German proof marks matching these very closely. Here’s a link to one of them: NRA Musem
In case the photo doesn’t work, the three are crown over B, crown over G, and crown over U. On the barrel, they appear with numbers in five lines follows:
- Crown over B Crown over G
- Crown over U
- 78,41
- 709
- 829
Any thoughts or comments?
Thanks,
Dorsey
[email protected] said
I have Model 1892 serial number 456599 with what I thought were British proof marks, but after finding a link to an array of London and Birmingham proof mark mages, the three on this rifle don’t match any of them. Or, the differences aren’t important. I’ve found other references that depict German proof marks matching these very closely. Here’s a link to one of them: NRA MusemIn case the photo doesn’t work, the three are crown over B, crown over G, and crown over U. On the barrel, they appear with numbers in five lines follows:
- Crown over B Crown over G
- Crown over U
- 78,41
- 709
- 829
Any thoughts or comments?
Thanks,
Dorsey
It is also possible that the proof marks are of Belgian origin.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
[email protected] said
I have Model 1892 serial number 456599 with what I thought were British proof marks, but after finding a link to an array of London and Birmingham proof mark mages, the three on this rifle don’t match any of them. Or, the differences aren’t important. I’ve found other references that depict German proof marks matching these very closely. Here’s a link to one of them: NRA MusemIn case the photo doesn’t work, the three are crown over B, crown over G, and crown over U. On the barrel, they appear with numbers in five lines follows:
- Crown over B
- Crown over G
- Crown over U
- 78,41
- 709
Hi Dorsey,
I believe they are German.
The “Crown over G” was used commencing in about 1950 by the E. German proof house in Suhl for the 1st black powder proof.
The “Crown over U” was used commencing in about 1950 by the E. German proof house in Suhl as an inspection mark.
I have attached a sheet which shows the proof marks on your rifle.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Bert H. said
It is also possible that the proof marks are of Belgian origin.
The Belgian crown style is different than the German crown style on the proof stamp. His rifle clearly has the German style crown as illustrated in his photo.
FWIW, most countries that have a crown incorporated into their proof marks all have a different style/shape of crown. That is one of the quick clues I use to determine the country of origin for proof marks.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
Bert H. said
It is also possible that the proof marks are of Belgian origin.
The Belgian crown style is different than the German crown style on the proof stamp. His rifle clearly has the German style crown as illustrated in his photo.
FWIW, most countries that have a crown incorporated into their proof marks all have a different style/shape of crown. That is one of the quick clues I use to determine the country of origin for proof marks.
Best Regards,
Jeff,
Thanks for jumping in and clarifying this… I only mentioned the Belgian possibility because there are a lot of Winchesters out there wearing Belgian proofs.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thank you all for taking time to look into this and for your comments. Any ideas what the numbers might mean?
I recently bought this rifle from a dealer In Virginia who has no idea of its history prior to his acquisition, so I have to wonder how it got to where the proofs needed to be applied in the 50s (?) and then how it came back to U.S.
Dorsey
Hello … Good morning from La Pampa, Argentina
78.41 indicates the caliber of the weapon
829 means August 1929
Here it explains it better https://www.germanguns.com/gun-marks/
Best regards
Jose Luis
The pervious post by Jose Luis seems to explain it all, many thanks to him for that link, summarized below:
Letters under the crown:
- B = proof load fired
- U = inspected / viewed (passed)
- G = solid bullet (as opposed to a shotgun)
Numeric codes:
- 78,41 = gauge .390″ (this rifle is 38 WCF). “,” is the decimal indicator in European countries.
- 709 = date code for July, 1909 or order number? This would a year after this rifle was made.
- 829 = date code for August, 1929 or order number? This would be 21 years after this rifle mas was made.
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