Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Winchester 1892 trapper barrel marking type
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
August 28, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
May 2, 2023 - 3:00 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I am currently considering an 1892 trapper 32-20 which has the barrel patent date with the lines on both sides of second line of marking / patent date, which is the earlier type aka transitional type 3 (has “PAT.” and “OCT.” vs the written out later type 3 version), as I understand it, after doing research on the forum. I believe this style of marking went away in 1903/04 time frame but I could be wrong. 

If the gun is from 1912 or so, is this barrel too early? I think the SN is around 650XXX. I am inclined to think the barrel is too early, and therefor most likely not original, however I do wonder if trapper length barrels were slow sellers, to where they do appear on later receivers IE earlier barrels on later receivers for trappers only. I know Winchester would not just toss out perfectly good barrels due to changes in markings, but I don’t want to make any expensive mistakes if I can avoid doing so.

Thank you for any help in advance

-~Jim~-

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
May 2, 2023 - 4:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Not that it will help answer your question, but what is the barrel length?

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2284
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
May 2, 2023 - 8:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

JR70 said
I am currently considering an 1892 trapper 32-20 which has the barrel patent date with the lines on both sides of second line of marking / patent date, which is the earlier type aka transitional type 3 (has “PAT.” and “OCT.” vs the written out later type 3 version), as I understand it, after doing research on the forum. I believe this style of marking went away in 1903/04 time frame but I could be wrong. 

If the gun is from 1912 or so, is this barrel too early? I think the SN is around 650XXX. I am inclined to think the barrel is too early, and therefor most likely not original, however I do wonder if trapper length barrels were slow sellers, to where they do appear on later receivers IE earlier barrels on later receivers for trappers only. I know Winchester would not just toss out perfectly good barrels due to changes in markings, but I don’t want to make any expensive mistakes if I can avoid doing so.

Thank you for any help in advance

  

Hello,

Can you send me some photos of the gun, serial number and the barrel markings?  I believe that you are describing a Type 2 barrel address marking on the gun and yes, it would very much be a suspect barrel for a SN in the 650000 range.  I have several trapper carbines in the 650000 range in my sur ey and they all have Type 3 barrel address stamps.  The second photo.

My email is [email protected]

Type-2.jpgImage Enlarger Type-3-LS-Carb.jpgImage Enlarger

Michael

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
August 28, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
May 3, 2023 - 8:07 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

The barrel length is 16in for this “trapper” (I use this term rather loosely LOL). It does have the shorter forend, and the roll mark is to the left of the forend but none of that proves that the barrel is original to the rifle itself unfortunately, hence my apprehension. It does have the standard WP proof on both barrel and receiver at 12 o’clock location, and no circle P is visible. The front sight appears to be correct, (carbine front sight) although I did not examine it in person. I have a question: Is there a way for a trapper barrel to be made from a longer barrel? My understanding (I never owned a vintage trapper so bear with me) was that the roll mark was not in the same location on a factory original 20in or longer barrel, and so the shorter forend of the trapper would then result in the magazine band being on top of the company address if a trapper barrel was made from a cutdown barrel. Do I have this right?  

The serial for this pseudo-trapper I found out is actually 666842 which is 1912 production. It does have the type II barrel address marking on a round barrel (using the photo on the left in twobit’s post which is octagon) which I mistakenly thought was the early form of the type 3 barrel address due to it having the patent date. I got confused on the barrel address types and mistakenly figured types I and II both neglected the patent dates, but had some variance, and then type 3 started the patent dates being on the barrel vs on tang. What is the approx. year / SN cutoff for a type 2 barrel address? 

Thanks twobit for the assistance. I am of course ok to wait to attain a real trapper vs make a hasty mistake and get a fake. 

Also – I posted from a work computer, so I am not able to download the photos and then post them. I might be able to later when I get home, if you still need to see them…

-~Jim~-

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2284
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
May 3, 2023 - 12:20 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

JR70 said
The barrel length is 16in for this “trapper” (I use this term rather loosely LOL). It does have the shorter forend, and the roll mark is to the left of the forend but none of that proves that the barrel is original to the rifle itself unfortunately, hence my apprehension. It does have the standard WP proof on both barrel and receiver at 12 o’clock location, and no circle P is visible. The front sight appears to be correct, (carbine front sight) although I did not examine it in person. I have a question: Is there a way for a trapper barrel to be made from a longer barrel? My understanding (I never owned a vintage trapper so bear with me) was that the roll mark was not in the same location on a factory original 20in or longer barrel, and so the shorter forend of the trapper would then result in the magazine band being on top of the company address if a trapper barrel was made from a cutdown barrel. Do I have this right?  

The serial for this pseudo-trapper I found out is actually 666842 which is 1912 production. It does have the type II barrel address marking on a round barrel (using the photo on the left in twobit’s post which is octagon) which I mistakenly thought was the early form of the type 3 barrel address due to it having the patent date. I got confused on the barrel address types and mistakenly figured types I and II both neglected the patent dates, but had some variance, and then type 3 started the patent dates being on the barrel vs on tang. What is the approx. year / SN cutoff for a type 2 barrel address? 

Thanks twobit for the assistance. I am of course ok to wait to attain a real trapper vs make a hasty mistake and get a fake. 

Also – I posted from a work computer, so I am not able to download the photos and then post them. I might be able to later when I get home, if you still need to see them…

  

Good morning,

You are wise to have been hesitant with regards to purchasing this rifle.  I have seen it previously for sale at Julia’s auction back in October of 2016.  Here are my concerns about the rifle.  The Type 2 barrel address stamp was only used between mid 1902 to 1904.  It is always located on the top of the barrel.  The rear sight dovetail on the gun is positioned too far from the receiver face.   This position was not used by Winchester until 1926 to facilitate putting longer buckhorn style rear sights onto saddle ring carbines.  I have found one other SRC later than 1904 with the Type 2 address at SN 397579 which corresponds to 1907 production.  It was twice offered by Morphy Auctions in Nov of 2020 and then again in Nov of 2021.  The first two images below are the rifle that you are looking at.  The following are the Morphy rifle.

50076a6.jpgImage Enlarger50076a6x1.jpgImage Enlarger397xxx7b.jpegImage Enlarger397xxx8.jpegImage Enlarger1303_8.jpgImage Enlarger

Michael

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 200
Member Since:
September 11, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
May 3, 2023 - 10:44 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Here is a picture of the markings on my M1892 with 14″ barrel with serial number 404259 from 1907.

 

P1020180_kl2.jpgImage Enlarger

 

Steff

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2284
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
May 4, 2023 - 11:44 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

steff said
Here is a picture of the markings on my M1892 with 14″ barrel with serial number 404259 from 1907.

P1020180_kl2.jpgImage Enlarger

Steff

Hello Steff,

On “early”14 inch trappers the barrel address is always located to the muzzle side of the barrel band since there is insufficient room between the band and the rear sight.  Once Winchester positioned the address stamp to the left side of the barrels then the address stamp was move to the right hand side of the barrel band and the stamp extends to just beneath the rear sight.

pix609825430.jpgImage Enlarger

Michael

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6153
TXGunNut: 4869
Chuck: 4517
1873man: 4259
steve004: 4097
Big Larry: 2292
twobit: 2284
TR: 1690
mrcvs: 1656
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12507
Posts: 108567

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1727
Members: 8718
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation