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I am highly skeptical of any Winchester that is claimed to be still with its original shipping crate, simply because the amount of fake crates FAR exceeds the number of authentic ones out there.
What are your thoughts relative to the authenticity of the crate associated with this Winchester 1892 for sale, dating from the first year of production?
http://antiquearmsinc.com/1892-winchester-rifle-original-crate-mint.htm
Bogus, as expected!
I want to say, can someone post photographs of a 100% original iron-clad without a doubt genuine shipping crate so we know what to look for, BUT the problem with that is that it simply becomes a template for which fakers will use to make more-convincing fakes!
As for myself, highly unlikely I would ever purchase a Winchester stated to be in its original crate, unless thrown in for free!
Hi Guys and Gals,
I would not discount this box as fake. I have done business with this seller and he would never want his name associated with a fake. The Patina looks right to me. LeRoy Merz has probably seen the most factory crates, and it would be interesting to hear what he states.
Walter
wallyb said
Hi Guys and Gals,I would not discount this box as fake. I have done business with this seller and he would never want his name associated with a fake. The Patina looks right to me. LeRoy Merz has probably seen the most factory crates, and it would be interesting to hear what he states.
Walter
Walter,
Be that as it may, I also believe that Bob is correct… Winchester never put hinges on their shipping crates.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
wallyb said
Bert,The seller stated that the hinges were added later.
Walter
OK, that makes it an “altered” versus an “original” shipping crate.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
I thought you wanted to research all Winchester Stuff and not Split Atoms. What if this is a rare shipping crate?
Walter
Hello all. I tend to side with Wally on this one. Brent clearly state the hinges were added later to make the crate more user friendly, Which makes sense. Did the seller do it? I HIGHLY doubt it. I have know him for close to 20 years and have found him to be a wealth of information on even the smallest details associated with Winchesters and impeccably honest. I can say whole heatedly that if he thought for one second this crate was not original (hinges excluded) he wouldn’t be selling it as such. Did this particular gun ship out in this crate? Who knows for sure?
Everyone has and is entitled to their opinion on the crates and given one of the previous sellers we’ve discussed I can see where any crate is viewed with suspicion and rightfully so.
Casey
It would interesting to know if there is a serial number on the crate (not added later) that matches the serial number of the gun. Otherwise, how would you ever tie that gun to that crate?
tionesta1 said
It would interesting to know if there is a serial number on the crate (not added later) that matches the serial number of the gun. Otherwise, how would you ever tie that gun to that crate?
Well,
This might be a valid point,
I have personally seen a wooden shipping crate, that 10 Winchester Model 1894 Carbines were shipped in,
The end of the crate read something like,
Winchester
Model 1894 Carbines
Each Serial Number was listed of the 10 Carbines, I believe 2 lines of 5 serial numbers,
Then Winchesters Address at the bottom.
It has been many years ago that I saw the Crate, but in my mind I can clearly picture it.
It was in a little General Store in upstate NY, that had a display of artifacts of stuff it sold since day one of it’s existence.
Maybe, Adams Express had a policy of not stamping the outside of the box with it’s contents.
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
wallyb said
Bert,I thought you wanted to research all Winchester Stuff and not Split Atoms. What if this is a rare shipping crate?
Walter
Walter,
You are twisting this topic in the wrong direction, and reading too far into what I have stated. I do indeed research all things Winchester, but that has nothing to do with answering the original question that was posed in this topic. I (like at least a few others here on the forum) do not believe that it is original to that particular rifle, nor do I believe that it is a 100% factory original crate. That does not mean that the crate was not manufactured by Winchester.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
On the pics of the gun shows the opposite to this Quote out of the AD part
. Wood to metal fit is perfect.
look at the pics of Wood to metal fit , particularly on L/S stock tang fit shows too much wear and sanding to match excellent looking case and receiver blue especially R/S reciever and screw head cond
forearm also has wear marks on R/S
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November 7, 2015
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Intriguing story, very tempting to accept it at face value. Very nice rifle but it seems a significant part of it’s value is derived from something that is difficult or nearly impossible to verify. Can’t say I’ve ever seen a factory shipping crate from this era, certainly not for a single rifle. I wonder how many survive. I can’t help but think that the crate may have significantly contributed to the wear evident on the receiver.
I’m still more a shooter than a collector so would have little use for a crate, even this one. Very nice, I hope the story is true but generations have come & gone since this rifle was shipped. I’m sure whoever built this crate would be shocked to know that someday someone would feel the crate was worth as much as or more than the rifle inside.
Hello all,
Sorry, I have been out of the loop and in Italy for a bit and not online much. Too much pasta and vino to waste time on the computer. I also have bought a few rifles from Brent and have not had any problems at all. This rifle was originally sold by him about 5 years ago and is now exactly as presented then. As we have all know there are lots of non original crates floating around and I am not certain if this is one of them. I would just concentrate on buying the rifle and if the crate is of interest then chip in another $100 but not more. Until someone can produce a “Crate Reference Book” there is just too much unknown about them.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
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