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November 19, 2006
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https://www.gunbroker.com/item/761891365
It would seem most anyone who buys vintage Winchesters and has many thousands to spend, would see the clear flaws here. To name a few things, the seller calls it a, “deluxe” when it clearly is not. The barrel is a Winchester barrel but clearly the cartridge markings are not original. We can easily project it has been rebored from something to .50 caliber. And when this happens, one wonders if whoever did it, performed all the needed internal modifications to make a .50 caliber cartridge function through the M1886 action? The rifle has both wood and metal that look horrible to me. The buttstock of course looks like a poor replacement. The case color makes me nauseous. I cannot see the appeal of this rifle. Especially from an internet auction where you aren’t able to examine it. The rifle has zero collector value so it must be shooters who are after it. I sure wouldn’t want to consider it as a shooter unless I could run some dummy cartridges though it.
Am I just a glass half empty person?
November 2, 2009
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Along with all the other problems you’ve mentioned, it appears that the serial number has been re-stamped.
The bids are most probably from people who are not knowleable in antique guns, such as myself. I would not have recognised any of the mentioned defects. I made one old gun purchase on gunbroker, soley based on liking the photos and trusting the sellers description. Now that I have learned a little, I can guess the seller was not being truthful or he is as ignorant as i am. Fortunately for me, mine is not an overly pricey gun if it shots well. He had 1000+ A+ ratings…go figure.
November 19, 2006
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[email protected] said
The bids are most probably from people who are not knowleable in antique guns, such as myself. I would not have recognised any of the mentioned defects. I made one old gun purchase on gunbroker, soley based on liking the photos and trusting the sellers description. Now that I have learned a little, I can guess the seller was not being truthful or he is as ignorant as i am. Fortunately for me, mine is not an overly pricey gun if it shots well. He had 1000+ A+ ratings…go figure.
Don – I have the same thoughts. I see internet sellers who routinely misrepresent or mis-describe their items. Often, seriously so. Yet, they maintain an A+ feedback ratings – with often hundreds or even thousands of very positive feedback.
Back to the rifle under discussion, I was puzzling over this aspect of the seller’s description:
“… in collector grade working condition….”
May 23, 2009
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Don’t forget “SHELL BIDDING”, for all we know it is taking place here. There could be someone that doesn’t know much about Winchester’s bidding on it, then the seller has his Shell Bidder run up the price, by bidding multiple times. Look at the bidding history, notice how one bidder has bid over 8 times, and has a feedback of 1.
Yeah $3,400 for a parts gun, is a lot of money to waste, in my opinion.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
November 19, 2006
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Maverick said
Don’t forget “SHELL BIDDING”, for all we know it is taking place here. There could be someone that doesn’t know much about Winchester’s bidding on it, then the seller has his Shell Bidder run up the price, by bidding multiple times. Look at the bidding history, notice how one bidder has bid over 8 times, and has a feedback of 1.Yeah $3,400 for a parts gun, is a lot of money to waste, in my opinion.
Sincerely,
Maverick
Yes, indeed. I did notice the one bidder with only one piece of feedback, who keeps running it up. Not proof but certainly a strong sign he is a shill.
June 26, 2013
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Got a bunch of new bidders on it now–over $4,500 and still going…
November 19, 2006
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deerhunter said
Got a bunch of new bidders on it now–over $4,500 and still going…
Hmmm… they say there is no such thing as, “bad” publicity. Maybe several saw it here and ran to it? Many people read this forum….
November 19, 2006
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I see it ended with a final price of $4552. I wouldn’t even want it for parts. The buttstock is a poor replacement, the barrel rebored and remarked, the receiver horribly re-case colored. The serial number restamped. What’s there that is desirable?
I see more than one bidder with just one piece of feedback….
Another observation:
The auction end yesterday, and today, the seller posts feedback for the winning bidder:
“NON PAYING BIDDER……..DON’T LET HIM BID ON YOUR ITEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GUNBROKER IS GIVING HIM THE BOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
I note that up until the above piece of “F” feedback, the buyer had 100% positive feedback and had purchased items from sellers we know such as Chayns and Austinsguns. Maybe he happened on to our thread here? I would speculate we will see the rifle relisted.
June 24, 2015
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steve004 said
I see it ended with a final price of $4552. I wouldn’t even want it for parts. The buttstock is a poor replacement, the barrel rebored and remarked, the receiver horribly re-case colored. The serial number restamped. What’s there that is desirable?I see more than one bidder with just one piece of feedback….
Another observation:
The auction end yesterday, and today, the seller posts feedback for the winning bidder:
“NON PAYING BIDDER……..DON’T LET HIM BID ON YOUR ITEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GUNBROKER IS GIVING HIM THE BOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
I note that up until the above piece of “F” feedback, the buyer had 100% positive feedback and had purchased items from sellers we know such as Chayns and Austinsguns. Maybe he happened on to our thread here? I would speculate we will see the rifle relisted.
I reached out to the buyer to inform him of the issues. Hence the non paying bidder drama. That gun is a pile of crap. Glad I read this thread, thanks guys. New collectors are getting mislead and taken advantage of, we need to step in whenever we can.
June 26, 2013
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steve004 said
I see it ended with a final price of $4552. I wouldn’t even want it for parts. The buttstock is a poor replacement, the barrel rebored and remarked, the receiver horribly re-case colored. The serial number restamped. What’s there that is desirable?I see more than one bidder with just one piece of feedback….
Another observation:
The auction end yesterday, and today, the seller posts feedback for the winning bidder:
“NON PAYING BIDDER……..DON’T LET HIM BID ON YOUR ITEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GUNBROKER IS GIVING HIM THE BOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
I note that up until the above piece of “F” feedback, the buyer had 100% positive feedback and had purchased items from sellers we know such as Chayns and Austinsguns. Maybe he happened on to our thread here? I would speculate we will see the rifle relisted.
It’s been relisted with the photo of the re-stamped serial number removed from the listing. I’m adding this seller to my list of Gunbroker scumbags to never do business with. Here’s the updated description (hopefully “Doplerone” is successful filing the fraud complaint with GB):
Extremely RARE RARE RARE…..Produced in 1891……Winchester model 1886 chambered in .50 Express Serial number 63612. Deluxe model with case colored receiver. Octagon barrel with excellent bore. All in excellent working condition……….DON’T LET THIS RARE FIND SLIP BETWEEN YOUR FINGERS!!!!!!!!! This is being relisted because last winning bidder (Doplerone) cannot pay. So sellers make sure you block him.
November 19, 2006
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WOW. And the seller is a Gunbroker, “Top 100 Seller” with an A+ rating and 1348 pieces of feedback. This is so very detrimental to the collecting field. It sure makes Gunbroker look like a joke as well (I am not suggesting other internet auction sites are any better). And of course we have plenty of disturbing examples from the auction houses too.
November 8, 2011
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Seller’s feedback is pretty bad anyway
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