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Robert Alton said
long spur hollow said
NRA Fine vs Antique Fine … sorry … that I got your proposed description incorrect … but I was going off memory from more than 14 hours previous … and since you had deleted the post, I could not refer back to it to quote you direct.
I stand by my other observations.
Mike
Again, the initial description I provided in the question was – NRA Antique Fine or Very Good (not NRA Fine vs Antique Fine and I wasn’t pushing that narrative, you are) the whole point being, this is likely a Very Good specimen, but could it be Fine? Or do the list of scratches, dings and areas as itemized and shown, prevent it from being that. SN is 119XXX, 1874 production.
I do think it was a spur that repeatedly struck the mag tube, it’s difficult to imagine some other scenario where someone was striking it there so many times. The marks are very consistent. Also, it does look like a rock or primitive tool was used to strike the left side of the rear sight in an attempt to adjust or remove it, striking it and the barrel area just below the sight.
Why does it matter what exactly the NRA Grade of this carbine is? All it is is a description created to attempt to quantify the qualitative. It might be nice and neat for a beginning collector, perhaps, but serious collectors look at the bigger picture, determine what they will pay for a particular firearm, and bid accordingly.
Also, why does it matter exactly what caused the damage to the magazine? It could be a spur, odds are it wasn’t. It’s damaged and that affects it based on what the current state is now. When these Winchesters had little value, they were treated as tools. The damage might have been caused by being thrown in the back of a truck or wagon with a bunch of other tools, or being used as a tool itself. If you want to believe that a cowboy’s spur caused the damage, then that’s your choice. And such a romantic tale interwoven into a sales description at Rock Island Auction might add a few dollars to a novice collector bidding on it, but probably not.
There’s a lot of romanticism associated with cowboys and the Old West. Most of it is what folks in the 21st Century want to believe, but the reality was far more mundane.
Robert Alton said
TR said
I think your gun is a little rough to be graded NRA Fine. I see a $5000 carbine that has been helped, but not done professionally. T/R
Tom, prices have changed in the last few years covering the Model 1866, probably all Winchesters. Antique Poor condition 1866s are selling $4500, NRA Antique Fair are selling for $5000. I’ve seen 2 in the last year, each with 1 replaced (reproduction) side plate, broken buttstock with pins and replaced sections of wood, reproduction screws, easily sell for $5000 at competitive auction. Maybe not in the midwest, but that’s how inflation is in the rest of the country, especially back East and the West Coast.
If you want to know what your rifle is truly worth, put it up for sale at a big name auction house and see what it brings. That is, if you are interested in selling it. Or, if you don’t want to sell it, put it up for sale on Gunbroker and start it at a penny, put a reserve of $20,000 on it, and see what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it.
R
Robert Drummond Jr said
I agree too bad. I was interested in that rifle and how it would grade.Rob
Rob, I added a few of the photos back in response above to long spur. Appreciate your kind words and interest, it’s folks like you that make the hobby and sharing enjoyable.
Long run, I’m planning to have the 1866 reviewed for both condition and value by 2 ISA certified appraisers locally and will follow up within the month or so here on the page. Almost certain it is Very Good Antique Condition, but the question raised about bluing may have an impact down toward Good. I don’t think it was re-blued at all, just don’t see it. This is the fifth Model 1866 I’ve owned, but by far the nicest condition hence my excitement that brought me here to the forum. I’ve slowly been buying/selling working my way up with the 1866s to this one. The previous four (4) I owned were Poor to Fair Condition. This one seems levels above them.
With all them, I like to shoot them using re-loads I make from 44 S&W SPL cases that are trimmed to 23mm, Federal No. 150 Large Pistol Primers and cast, pan lubed, heeled “boolits” pushed with roughly 22 grs FFG BP and lately Blackhorn209. I have a CF Conversion Bolt that I use for this and access to a 1,200 acre farm next to my house for plinking.
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