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Here’s a beautiful 1886 deluxe that should have sold more a lot more $$$ (if truly original).
deerhunter said
Here’s a beautiful 1886 deluxe that should have sold more a lot more $$$ (if truly original).
Yes, a LOT more. States never fired.
Any opinions on if original or restoration?
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
Kevin Jones said
Yes, a LOT more. States never fired.
Any opinions on if original or restoration?
The rifle does come with a letter of authenticity from David Bichrest (I believe is a WACA member). If the letter is authentic, he must have had his hands on it and gave his seal of approval regarding its originality. Odd that a rifle of this caliber ended up on Gunbroker instead of one of the major auction houses. Surprised nobody bothered to get a Cody letter either. Maybe it came from an estate and nobody knew any better.
This is purely my opinion… that Model 1886 has been restored.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
That one looks like a restoration to me, as well. Finishes don’t look quite right to me, wood to metal fit, while respectable, looks like it is not as “proud” to the metal as might be expected, although still considerably “proud”. Case colouring does not “quite” look like original 19th Century case colouring, finish on stock not quite as a “piano finish” might be, checkering appears recut. Even if in pristine condition, this one just looks too pristine. And, a Cody letter has not been provided. Again, my opinion, but seems suspicious to me…
mrcvs said
That one looks like a restoration to me, as well. Finishes don’t look quite right to me, wood to metal fit, while respectable, looks like it is not as “proud” to the metal as might be expected, although still considerably “proud”. Case colouring does not “quite” look like original 19th Century case colouring, finish on stock not quite as a “piano finish” might be, checkering appears recut. Even if in pristine condition, this one just looks too pristine. And, a Cody letter has not been provided. Again, my opinion, but seems suspicious to me…
Seems strange that the seller went through the effort of providing an authentication letter yet not a Cody letter……
Original or not; beautiful rifle!
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
Read the letter and see what it says and what it doesn’t say.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 7, 2015
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1873man said
Read the letter and see what it says and what it doesn’t say.Bob
I was thinking that as well. Same could be said of a restoration. Pretty sure the absence of a Cody letter is not an accident.
Cody letter or not, the authenticity letter only attests to the configuration for the most part, does not state that it in “original” antique condition. The rifle has been restored. The color case hardening doesnt have the right mixture of colors, too many browns, blue, and greys, not enough of the yellow, green, or the right tone of red. The barrel also looks to be refinished and an the barrel address was partially obscured but then the first line was overstamped as it is much deeper than the adjacent lettering. The checking on the wood looks to be re-run and the finish on the wood is not the typical “piano” finish you would normally see on a gun like this as mrcvs pointed out. That being said, for some folks it doesnt matter whether it has been redone or not just so long as its a decent job of looking like its new.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
November 7, 2015
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I see what you’re talking about with the lettering, Chris. Wood just doesn’t look right to me, not sure it isn’t new. Receiver looks like it has spent some serious time on a buffing wheel so I guess that lettering has been redone as well. Very nice-looking rifle in my opinion, just doesn’t add up.
Another inconsistency for a “looks unfired” gun is the upper tang area. There is a scratch above the peep sight screw that is consistent with having had a tang peep sight mounted. Add the fact that the tang peep sight filler screw is not an original Winchester screw and the tang screw itself shows screwdriver marks and the finish on top of it is worn while none of the other screws have a worn surface.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
One of the Kock (sp?) brothers was a big time buyer and bought a lot of Wes’ stuff. I don’t see him in the current market, in fact, I can’t identify any big-time buyers out there.
I had 15 guns in Julia’s auction. They were all priced by Julia’s staff at the Cody show. Only 6 sold and those at the low end of the estimate.
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
I would ad my vote for that being a restored 1886 as well. David’s letter says it all. He knows condition and avoids any reference to originality as regards finish.
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
Rick Hill said
I would ad my vote for that being a restored 1886 as well. David’s letter says it all. He knows condition and avoids any reference to originality as regards finish.
Now that confuses me. The letter states:
“The gun shows no or at the very least limited use in the field as it remains in excellent antique condition.”
The way I interpret that, the “letter of authenticity” is stating that the rifle in question is in original condition.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
The gun could have been restored after the letter was written? I would have to believe that if this gun was 99% “Original” condition it would have been called out in the letter as such and been a little more in depth than a few sentences.
There are at least two six figure players still out there at the moment but their interests are fading to specific items. Historically important (Not just Winchester or Colts), ID’D guns or a combination of both with condition if possible. If you have anything that would fit this description. please feel free to PM me. Thanks,
Casey
nanzca said
The gun could have been restored after the letter was written? I would have to believe that if this gun was 99% “Original” condition it would have been called out in the letter as such and been a little more in depth than a few sentences.
There are at least two six figure players still out there at the moment but their interests are fading to specific items. Historically important (Not just Winchester or Colts), ID’D guns or a combination of both with condition if possible. If you have anything that would fit this description. please feel free to PM me. Thanks,
Casey
The only problem with is that if the guns was “in excellent antique condition” on 12/18/15, why would someone restore it after that?
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
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