Target Model 70 questions and other questions|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

Hi Ramsay-

The answers to your questions can be a little involved, but here goes:

1.  All M70 medium heavy straight taper target rifle barrels (contours #4, 5 and 8 in RR’s table 4-16) were made with two D&T holes for a barrel mounted scope block.  The rifles came with Lyman-type scope blocks, one on the barrel (0.360″ tall) and one on the receiver (front) ring (0.185″ tall).  On most M70 targets made before say 1950, in addition to the Unertl “crescents” on the right side, these blocks had Winchester “dimples” on the left to accommodate the older pin type mounts on scopes like the Winchester A5 and Lyman 5A.  Later, the blocks were the same. except that many/most were made without the dimples.  That said, dimpled blocks will turn up randomly even into the early 1960s, so the factory must have had a big pile of them somewhere. The blocks look like this:

2.  Target rifles were technically discontinued in 1952 (220 SWIFT, 257 ROBERTS, 270 WCF, and 30-06 were cataloged through 1951).  They were reinstated in 1955 in 30-06 and 243 WIN only.  Before 1952, they came standard with metallic sights.  The earliest ones (the rare 1st year ones with front sight ramps) had a Lyman 48WJS receiver sight and Lyman 17A globe front sight installed in the ramp dovetail.  From 1938 until 1951, the target barrels had a dovetail at the muzzle and came with a Lyman 48WH receiver sight and Lyman 77R front sight installed via a Lyman AK cross dovetail block.  The most common combination looks like this (illustrating both the regular and “long slide” versions of the 48WH):

After 1955, the muzzle design was changed from a dovetail to two 6-48 D&T holes that could accommodate a Lyman A dovetail bock for those wanting metallic sights.  These rifles were not routinely supplied with metallic sights, only the two scope blocks.

3.  In 1947, Lyman changed the design of the base block of the 48WJS/WH series to eliminate the need to inlet the stock for the base block.  So MOST target rifles made before 1947 have the inletting, while most made from 1947-1952 do not. None of the target rifles made after 1955 will have factory inletting for a receiver sight.  The EXCEPTION with respect to pre-1947 target models is that from at least 1940 on, one could order a target rifle “without sights” (for 30-06 this was catalog symbol G7040C, as opposed to G7044C for the model with sights).  On these rifles, there was no stock inletting and the muzzle dovetail had a Lyman 12S blank in place of the AK block.  The pre-war catalogs explicitly state that the “sightless” option was available for other chamberings, e.g. 220 SWIFT, on special order.

4.  RR’s book does not address sights as systematically as I wish it did.  Available sights (those that could be supplied by Winchester) are listed in the various Winchester catalogs of the day, though they are not broken down by Model in the catalog.  The most popular on M70 target rifles were the Lyman 48WH/77R (standard offering before 1952) and the Redfield Olympic sights (that were introduced before WWII).  Vaver sights are listed in the catalog but I’ve never seen a M70 with them.  I suspect that many of the “sightless” M70 targets ordered before 1947 were bought by guys who wanted Redfield Olympics since the rail that attaches the sight to the receiver did not require a stock cut-out.

5.  Unfortunately, because of their popularity, pre-64 M70s have been subject to all kinds of “upgrading”, undisclosed “restoration” and outright “fakery” since the 1970s!!!  As with anything else, Buyer Beware!!!  At least you’ve got the best reference book currently available, and if you have questions feel free to post them here.  Some members, like seewin, know a heck of a lot more about the target rifles than I do!!!  Even better, join WACA so you can post photos directly on the site.

FWIW… I think this is an example of a correct later 220 SWIFT target rifle:  

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles-model-70-pre-64/pre-64-winchester-model-70-target-220-swift.cfm?gun_id=101386832

This one (post 1947) is not inlet and it looks to me like it never had a receiver sight on it.  The scope blocks are correct, and the barrel dovetail blank is a Lyman 12S.  Its only (minor) detraction is that it’s missing the Bakelite hand stop assembly that attaches to the adjustment rail in the bottom of the fore end.

Hope this helps… 

Lou

Hi Ramsay-

The hand stop was used with the adjustment rail to allow the shooter to adjust their left hand position when firing using a M1907 style sling the way they’re supposed to be used.  These hand stop assemblies were added to both the M70 and M52 target rifles when the Marksman stock was adopted.  The whole assembly looks like this:

The satin chrome version was used up until hot salt bluing replaced carbonum (charcoal) bluing around 1940.  They still turn up often during the pre-war and early post-war periods since they must’ve had a bunch of them in the parts inventory, but certainly the blued version becomes dominant on post-war guns. The second photo illustrates another point, which is that the base of the front (fixed) loop changed to a blockier (more cylindrical) shape around 1950 or so…

When rigged, with the sling double looped through the swivel on the bakelite hand stop, they looked like this.  This is one of those “rare” 1st variation target rifles and there’s an “Albree Keeper” in the sling, but it’s a pic I had handy showing how to rig the sling:

These parts aren’t hard to find, e.g. on eBay, b/c they were used on the M52 as well as the M70.  So lots were made…  Do note that the rail itself should be stamped “U.S.A. Patented” if you want to be totally correct…

Hope this helps… 

Lou

Hi Ramsay-

You have it correct… 

The aluminum butt plates were shaped just like the steel plates only the sides were left unfinished (bright).  The plastic butt plates, which are slightly curved but lack the widow’s peak, are all made of plastic.  The vent pad was standard only on the FWT-Westerner.

Looking at my survey to date, on FWTs the plastic butt plates come to dominate around S/N 445,000 though they’re mixed in with aluminum ones after about 425,000.  The crappy machine checkering overlaps hand checkering from about 510,000 to 535,000, after which the narrow panel machine checkering dominates.  So there are plenty of FWTs with hand checkering and plastic butt plates.  I’d beware of FWTs with S/Ns from 220,000 to 410,000 with plastic butt plates and/or narrow panel checkering.  These are almost certainly period incorrect stock replacements.  The FWT-Westerners, with the vent recoil pad, run from about 535,000 to 580,000.  They all have the narrow panel checkering.

I think that, in general, most collectors prefer the earlier FWTs with aluminum butt plates. But that’s just my opinion.  Of course you have no choice if you want a “flamethrower” as the short barreled 264 WIN MAGNUMs are sometimes called.  

Best, Lou