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May 24, 2012
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JWA said
Bert H. said
I sent the seller a message a few days ago, and this morning he sent me this response;“Bert,
I pulled the letter out to examine it and you are correct it is 100% fake. On the bottom of the letter it says the letter is for an 1886 with serial number 737 (which I own from the same collection). Thank you for bringing this to my attention.”This was my response to him this morning;“Really ?? The letter clearly states that it is for “Model 1894, serial number 405544“, not for a Model 1886, and certainly not for serial number “737”. Do you really believe that I, and other people are that stupid & blind ?? Compounding an outright lie (the fake letter, and bogus description) with another lie, it tells me everything that I need to know about you as a person. You are digging your hole deeper and deeper by the day… pretty soon, you should just stop digging, and have some fill in the hole above you.”
The bottom line on this seller is a whopping CAVEAT EMPTOR!!
Bert H.I zoomed in at the bottom of the fake letter and it does say 1886 serial number 737 down in the fine print like the seller stated.
Regards,
I see that , too, Jeff. How does the sentence below it read?
James
January 19, 2006
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JWA said
I zoomed in at the bottom of the fake letter and it does say 1886 serial number 737 down in the fine print like the seller stated.
Talk about a crappy forgery.
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
May 2, 2009
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“This factory Letter is a staff interpretation of handwritten, abbreviated records. Some errors may occur in transcription.”
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
May 24, 2012
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1873man said
“This factory Letter is a staff interpretation of handwritten, abbreviated records. Some errors may occur in transcription.”Bob
Thank you very much, Bob!
James
April 15, 2005
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TXGunNut said
Seller owned up to the fake letter in his listing but tried to chalk it up as an honest mistake. Looks like a few bids since last night. Looks like a nice $700-800 shooter to me and I like the 38-55 cartridge but I have plenty of shooters, all honest guns.
It is not an “honest mistake”.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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jwm94 said
I see that , too, Jeff. How does the sentence below it read?
James
James, et al,
The CFM records office has NEVER issued a letter with contradictory information in the fine print! That so called letter is an outright Fake from start to finish!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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supergimp said
JWA said
I zoomed in at the bottom of the fake letter and it does say 1886 serial number 737 down in the fine print like the seller stated.
Talk about a crappy forgery.
Agreed!! The CFM records office would never issue a letter like the one show in that auction.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
July 17, 2012
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Bert H. said
“Bert,
I pulled the letter out to examine it and you are correct it is 100% fake. On the bottom of the letter it says the letter is for an 1886 with serial number 737 (which I own from the same collection). Thank you for bringing this to my attention.”
Hi Bert,
I was just trying to give the seller the benefit of the doubt since per his response to your inquiry he admitted it was 100% fake and was the one that pointed out the discrepancy at the bottom of the letter which proved it.
I agree, Caveat Emptor since we do not know if he is the one that made the forgery but his response seems genuine, or at least the same type of response I would have made if I discovered a discrepancy with a letter supplied to me by someone else.
The seller is on the radar now so we will see if any further shenanigans occur.
Best Regards,
Jeff
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
November 7, 2015
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Looks like it sold for $2475. Ouch, that’s gonna leave a mark!
November 7, 2015
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Bert H. said
It is not an “honest mistake”.
Bert
Agreed, just not 100% sure who faked the letter. There’s a slim possibility he could have been deceived by it when he bought the rifle. Can’t say I’ve ever read the small print at the bottom of any letters before today. There’s also a slim possibility he didn’t know it was refinished but the way he danced around the issue in the description I feel pretty certain he didn’t think it was original. Unfortunately the buyer apparently thought it was something it wasn’t.
February 24, 2014
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Bert H. said
supergimp said
JWA said
I zoomed in at the bottom of the fake letter and it does say 1886 serial number 737 down in the fine print like the seller stated.
Talk about a crappy forgery.
Agreed!! The CFM records office would never issue a letter like the one show in that auction.
Bert
ser# 737 45-70 (1886) is the one I had & returned a couple months back. Not to this seller!!
July 17, 2012
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That is an interesting twist! Makes me glad I don’t collect lever guns……
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
December 27, 2007
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JWA said
That is an interesting twist! Makes me glad I don’t collect lever guns……Regards,
Well JWA, Bert is definitely off that seller’s Christmas list, but you may have moved up to near the top. If he gives you a Lever Gun in December, let me know and we can add it to my collection. Even a refinished; I’m desperate! When Santa (the good one, not Evil Bert) when Santa comes round again, it will have been 47 years since he last brought me a gun.
December 1, 2012
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Seems to me that if someone made an “honest mistake” he would have deleted the letter from the description. I’ve seen genuine honest mistakes entirely removed from the listing on GB and also some with accurate disclaimers added.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
April 15, 2005
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Wincacher said
Seems to me that if someone made an “honest mistake” he would have deleted the letter from the description. I’ve seen genuine honest mistakes entirely removed from the listing on GB and also some with accurate disclaimers added.
Precisely the correct point! The sellers lack of appropriate action & response tells the story.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
July 17, 2012
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Bert H. said
Precisely the correct point! The sellers lack of appropriate action & response tells the story.
Bert
Ok, you guys make valid points. Although I was really looking forward to getting a Christmas card this year. Oh well……
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
April 15, 2005
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JWA said
Ok, you guys make valid points. Although I was really looking forward to getting a Christmas card this year. Oh well……
Best Regards,
Jeff,
I will have my good buddy Krampus send you a special Xmas card…
Bert (a.k.a. Evil Santa)
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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