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The thread about sights that letter produced some very interesting rifles that I enjoyed viewing. I’ve never owned a rifle that fits this new topic but I would enjoy seeing some. To start us out, I did find a M1885 currently on auction. It does fit the topic and the letter is shown. Looks like a neat little rifle. Of greatest interest to me are lever rifles with scopes that letter. What do others have or have seen out there?
I was excited about this one this morning, but the “ding” in the barrel looks more like a DENT to me. Kinda scary.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
I believe the ding is in the scope and not the barrel. It appears the Winchester address is stamped on the scope. I’m not real familiar with these but that address on the scope looks pretty neat. Except for the dent 🙁
Oh yea, I think you’re right. I was looking at it wrong.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
steve004 said
It appears the Winchester address is stamped on the scope. I’m not real familiar with these but that address on the scope looks pretty neat.
This was Winchester’s “second bestest” scope–an unsatisfactory attempt to provide greater eye-relief than the A models, which are optically superior. Still, any factory-installed scope is unusual. The dent can be hammered out by use of a properly sized mandrel; in fact, I had a machinist make me one for that purpose.
steve004 said
The thread about sights that letter produced some very interesting rifles that I enjoyed viewing. I’ve never owned a rifle that fits this new topic but I would enjoy seeing some. To start us out, I did find a M1885 currently on auction. It does fit the topic and the letter is shown. Looks like a neat little rifle. Of greatest interest to me are lever rifles with scopes that letter. What do others have or have seen out there?
Steve,
In my survey of the surviving Model 1885 records, I found more than (100) of them that letter with a telescope, lots of them with an A5, but many with a B3, B4, or B5. At least a few dozen were listed with various Stevens Telescopes as well. There were undoubtedly a few hundred more of them factory equipped above the letterable serial number range ( > 109999). It would not surprise me if at least (400) Model 1885s were factory scoped.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
It appears the wood has been refinished, and possibly the receiver. There are lots of imperfections in the wood that seem to have “shiny” finish over the top of them. The lettering and serial #’s appear to be shallow and weak on the receiver. Some of the internals and operating lever don’t seem to match the “wear” on the receiver.
Erin
Erin Grivicich said
It appears the wood has been refinished, and possibly the receiver. There are lots of imperfections in the wood that seem to have “shiny” finish over the top of them. The lettering and serial #’s appear to be shallow and weak on the receiver. Some of the internals and operating lever don’t seem to match the “wear” on the receiver.Erin
I see what you are saying. But still, the scope does letter 
Erin Grivicich said
It appears the wood has been refinished, and possibly the receiver. There are lots of imperfections in the wood that seem to have “shiny” finish over the top of them. The lettering and serial #’s appear to be shallow and weak on the receiver. Some of the internals and operating lever don’t seem to match the “wear” on the receiver.Erin
Erin,
I disagree with your assessment of the finish condition on receiver, internals, and lever. At the time that low-wall rifle was manufactured, the receiver frames were blued, but all of the internals and lever were still case color finished. If you carefully examine the pictures in the auction listing, it is easy to see the faded case colors on the various internal parts, with the lever showing the most wear (as it should). In my learned opinion, the bluing on the receiver frame and take down extension are 100% original, and showing the expected wear on them.
I do agree that the stocks may have been touched up, but they do not appear to have ever been sanded. They look like they might simply have a light coat of wood furniture oil on them.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
What makes me skeptical is the obvious amount of service the wood has seen and the receiver area’s that should show some amount of wear don’t. The top tang shows no blueing loss what so ever. The take down lug shows wear on the bottom, yet the receiver doesn’t. The rifle should balance at that point for hand carrying. I agree on the case colored parts being correct in both the wear factor and coloration. They seem to “match” the condition of the wood. Not saying I disagree with your assessment, I remain skeptical.
On another note, these are your forte. What’s your sale estimate on this one?
Best,
Erin
Not that this is factory mounted, but I did find how they mounted it quite interesting:
Erin Grivicich said
Bert,What makes me skeptical is the obvious amount of service the wood has seen and the receiver area’s that should show some amount of wear don’t. The top tang shows no blueing loss what so ever. The take down lug shows wear on the bottom, yet the receiver doesn’t. The rifle should balance at that point for hand carrying. I agree on the case colored parts being correct in both the wear factor and coloration. They seem to “match” the condition of the wood. Not saying I disagree with your assessment, I remain skeptical.
On another note, these are your forte. What’s your sale estimate on this one?
Best,
Erin
Erin,
Unlike a Winchester lever-action, the balance point on a Model 1885 Single Shot rifle is actually forward of the receiver frame. Additionally, there is precious little space on the bottom of the receiver to grasp it. Lastly, and again unlike a lever-action, Single Shot rifles seldom ever get carried much. Many of them spent the majority of their time at the range target shooting versus in the field hunting. On the subject rifle, the scope mounting location helped protect the receiver frame from excessive handling and associated wear. If you look at the pictures again, the lower front quadrant of the receiver shows evident wear.
That rifle should sell for approximately $2,600. If it was a center fire. it would sell for significantly more.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
Thanks for your input and patience with a continuing lesson on Winchester education.
Best,
Erin
Bert H. said
At least a few dozen were listed with various Stevens Telescopes as well.
My theory (unprovable, of course): beginning about 1903, Stevens newly introduced line of scopes was receiving great fanfare in the sporting press, such as about half a doz Shooting & Fishing covers featuring a Stevens rife & scope combo. Suspect quid pro quos of some kind account for this much publicity, but that’s beside the point–no well-informed rifleman of the time could have been oblivious to the fact that “something new” was afoot. (Not that scopes themselves were a novelty, but older makers like Malcolm & Sidel lacked the polished PR skills of Stevens.)
Combine this with requests from Winchester customers to have “the competition’s” scopes mounted on Winchester rifles, and I suspect you have the motivation for Winchester’s interest in developing their own line of optics.
clarence said
Bert H. said
At least a few dozen were listed with various Stevens Telescopes as well.My theory (unprovable, of course): beginning about 1903, Stevens newly introduced line of scopes was receiving great fanfare in the sporting press, such as about half a doz Shooting & Fishing covers featuring a Stevens rife & scope combo. Suspect quid pro quos of some kind account for this much publicity, but that’s beside the point–no well-informed rifleman of the time could have been oblivious to the fact that “something new” was afoot. (Not that scopes themselves were a novelty, but older makers like Malcolm & Sidel lacked the polished PR skills of Stevens.)
Combine this with requests from Winchester customers to have “the competition’s” scopes mounted on Winchester rifles, and I suspect you have the motivation for Winchester’s interest in developing their own line of optics.
That’s pretty much as I see it too, Clarence.
James
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