Sometimes the model 70 Karma comes around|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

Ohhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!  You didn’t say anything about the Biesen’s!  Color me GREEN with envy!  Congratulations my friend…. 🙂  

Nice!  Seems to me period custom work should be a legitimate collector category. A bit hard to establish parameters maybe but they deserve recognition for their part in Winchester’s history. Maybe not, but they make excellent eye candy!

Mike 

They are in the same category as a Winchester Modei 55 or 64 with a non-factory, full coverage engraving job by the late E. C. Prudhomme, with gold wire inlays. 

Such a thing is sui generis- so unique it can’t be grouped with anything else. Like the Mona Lisa. 

Specimens of Biesen and Goudy based on Winchester rifles and shotguns appeal to two groups, almost all Winchester collectors and experienced sportsmen who admire the best American custom rifle work. 

In my opinion – and I’ve held several Biesen rifles in my hands but never have been fortunate enough to own one — Al’s specialty was building the finest hunting rifles that were actually made to be used. There is nothing frail or fragile about them nor do they exhibit the effete contours especially executed solely to show off the skill of the maker – something seen too often at shows of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild. I have read some members of that group believe Biesen could not have qualified for membership. The tail has begun to wag the dog. 

Bert H. said
Those are nothing more than “Pimp” guns… unless you are willing to take them all to Elk camp later this year and then drag then through a Salal & Alder thicket chasing a Bull Elk!
  

Bert… for a guy that drives a “dilapidated vehicle” that seems to need constant mechanical attention from said “pimp gun” owner, you might slow your roll! It’s well known that I’m another “informed” consumer that appreciates said “pimp guns”!  And seeing that Zeb is in the same crowd, gives me even greater boldness to stand up to the bearded offender!   

Deerehart,  Now, that is the way to hunt!  With a .405 WCF Model 95.   Just awesome.

Hi Doug-

My (unsolicited) personal opinion is that collecting custom rifles is a bit like collecting Art…  If you like Rembrandt, collect Rembrandt.  If you like Picasso, collect Picasso.  If you like Biesen, collect Biesen.  Art collector follow their own taste (within the limitations imposed by their pocketbooks).

It may or may not be a good “investment strategy” compared to collecting factory original Winchesters/Colts etc., but who cares?  Surely the resale market for “factory original” guns is larger, but Art is Art, and the work of these “Old Masters” is surely Art.  If I owned it, I wouldn’t take the Mona Lisa out in the rain, and I similarly don’t buy the argument that “custom” rifles are only “shooters”…  

I do like your taste!!!  Would you consider a Biesen built on a ’98 Mauser (or other action) or are you only a Model 70 guy?  Don’t worry, I don’t own any Biesen (or anyone else’s) customs, so I’m not trying to sell something.

Lou

I concur with Lou’s opinion that the custom built guns of the old masters are legitimate works of art. Because he raised a question about such works not based on the Model 70 action, I would like to interject by citing Jack O’Connor’s 1956 Gun Digest article titled Crack Riflemaker in which he introduces Alvin Biesen of Spokane, Washington. 

In that article, O’Connor describes his furnishing Biesen an Enfield action barreled to 416 Rigby and giving Al a free hand in designing the stock and modifying the action to suit himself.

There is an illustration of the resulting rifle, which resembles an American Classic version of a Holland stalking rifle. It is gorgeous and, according to O’Connor, comfortable to shoot because of Biesen’s skill at designing in enough gripping dimensions and a thick comb. 

The Enfield action was so heavily modified it is unrecognizable. 

I would love to own it.