Log In
Members
Home
Add Reply
Add Topic
I had posted recently about looking for an 1886. I hadn’t had much luck with finding what I was looking for in my price range. I was eating lunch with a gentleman that I am thankful to call my friend today when the subject of rifles came up. We talked off and on about M54s, M70s, Model 700s, a double rifle he fired once back in the 50s on some hunt he was on. Eventually we got to lever actions and of course winchesters. After discussing gyns a bit more he said he would be rightbackand walked back in the house. He came back out with the below rifle.
Now, I am fully aware it is not a collectable, it is not in investment condition, nor do I think it id completely original. What it is though is a well used almost 110 year old North Texas Cowboy/Truck Gun.
According to my 85 year old friend, his father bought it brand new in 1910 down in Ft Worth. It has been used to kill many a wild hog, coyote, and other varmints on their family ranch that he is the 4th generation to manage. My friend knows it has taken several elk and at least one moose on hunting trips up north.
It is a takedown 45-70 with 22 inch round barrel, rifle butt, half magazine, marbles adjustable leaf rear sight, winchester express front sight, straight grip.
There are traces of case color on the hammer and bluing on the frame. As I said its an honest old working gun.
My friend has no children of his own, multiple decendents of other forms, but he figures they will not miss this old rifle. He quoted me a very agreeable price and I said I’d take it. He told me to take the gun home and if I still liked it on sunday morning I could pay him for it at church. As I said a true gentleman.
It is in the serial range that is missing records so I can’t letter it, but I am a fan.
I know the feeling….Been wanting a first model 73 and just like you, a good friend of mine inherited a bunch of guns. This rifle found me and followed me home. A first model 73 with a 28″ Heavy barrel with a set trigger. Sometimes the stars do align!
November 7, 2015
Offline
KC-
Some things are just meant to be. Congrats on a fine rifle and the friendship of a good man.
Mike
It may be old with some wear, yet a lot of life left in it – to do what it was meant to do. A testament to the design, quality of materials and skill of the workmanship involved. An old soldier, but a soldier nonetheless and as ready to serve as ever. The soldier metaphor is poignant to me. I’ve met many an old soldier for whom the readiness to serve never leaves them. The scars they’ve picked up do not detract, rather, they add.
O/P KingCobb: “Now, I am fully aware it is not a collectable, it is not in investment condition, nor do I think it id completely original. What it is though is a well used almost 110 year old North Texas Cowboy/Truck Gun.”
Your “truck gun” hardly such from my perspective. Nor do I think many California gun dealers or local gun folk to suggest such. Fairly pricey here!
You of course with the superior “hands on” perspective. No writing or photos really equivalent of such appraisal/analysis. That said, your rifle looking a fine ‘senior’ specimen rifle to me. Bespeaking well of its history and of owner(s) who took pretty darn good care of her. To of course be ‘wowed’ by the very nice 90% plus guns, not to mention adorned specimens. Even to grant Turnbull “restorations” as eye catching. But frankly, I prefer a gun in my hands whereupon to conjure prior owners, their use & pride. To me your rifle, no apologies either necessary or appropriate. Just a very nice honest specimen to my eyes/mind.
Congrats on a very nice, classic rifle showing happy ‘true colors’!
Just my take 🙂
John
Thanks. I really like the gun. Looking in THE book, it matches up well with being an ELW, except it has the rifle butt instead of shotgun.
John, I didn’t mean to sound apologetic about the rifle, I just didn’t want anyone thinking I had gotten some fancy condition gun.
So far the only thing I am not certain about being original is the flip down sight. The book says marbles didn’t fome out with that style until 1928 I believe.
I’m probably going to get myself in trouble here, but I think that sight adds individuality and character. Especially where “restoration” only a matter of some bucks away if desired, technical ‘laments’ a non-starter. Were it mine, just to appreciate that fine rifle for exactly what it represents!
Just another personal ‘take’.
KC,
What is the serial number on your Model 1886 ELW Rifle? There is a survey in progress to capture all of the serial numbers that cannot be lettered.
Thanks,
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I will try to remember to look later.
Would you consider this a Lightweight? I thought they all had shotgun butts?
KingCobb said
I will try to remember to look later.Would you consider this a Lightweight? I thought they all had shotgun butts?
No, it is not a “Lightweight”. Winchester never made a “Lightweight” Model 1886. What Winchester did manufacture and catalog was an “Extra Lightweight” (ELW) Rifle. Per Winchester literature, the ELWs were 45-70 caliber, 22-inch round barrel only, Solid or Take Down (most were TDs), blued finish only (no case color finished receiver frames), and a hard rubber shotgun butt. A standard rifle stock w/steel crescent butt plate could be ordered. The standard shotgun style butt stock w/hard rubber butt plate will also have a large round hole bore in it under the butt plate, similar to a stock fitted with a trap door for cleaning rods.
Many people (and collectors) mistakenly refer to the Model 1886 33 WCF rifles as “Lightweights”, but they are not. Again, Winchester never referred to them as such in any of there sales or catalog literature.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Sorry when I wrote lightweight I was meaning ELW.
Cool thx for the special order info.
I believe serial number is 149702.
The lightweight terminology has been a very common source of confusion – and is quite widespread. What hasn’t helped is Authur Pirkle’s book, “The Models of 1886 and 1892.” First off, there is a lot of good information in all of Pirkle’s books. However, one area of misinformation is his sections dealing with both, “lightweight” and, “extra lightweight” models. He goes as far to say that even the .33 could be had in both lightweight and extra lightweight versions. He states the lightweight and extra lightweight could only be had in .33 and .45-70 only. He further states the distinction between the two versions is that the lightweight version is distinguished by a steel shotgun butt and the extra lightweight came equipped with the hard rubber shotgun butt.
Be prepared when having a debate with someone about the existence of the, “lightweight” variations as they just might cite the Pirkle reference. Bert has the correct information on this and Mr. Pirkle is incorrect on this point.
Can anyone direct me to a trusted site to purchase commemeretive and cenntenial winchester rifles please.
i bought one online and it was not even close to being what was in the pictures.
Rock Island Auctions frequently sells them.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I have to say that commemoratives are not my cup of tea. It makes little sense to me why anyone would collect these. Yet, some people do. I am surprised to hear that buying them through an internet auction would be a problem. It sounds like you have had one bad experience, which can easily happen. Was it a function of bad photos? When it comes to collecting, I can see some advantage with commemoratives. With a lot of collecting these days a person has to worry about fakery, alterations and deceptions. It would be very rare for this to occur with commemoratives. I’ve not seen an example. Another aspect with commemoratives – they are generally only collected in new-in-the-box condition. A commemorative showing light hunting use is no longer viewed as a collectible. So, if an internet seller has quality photos where you can establish there is no observable wear, you are pretty much set. You also want pictures of the box and paperwork. A commemorative that is sold without it’s original box loses a lot of its status as a collectible. A box that shows wear is not ideal, but does not have the impact of wear showing on the rifle. Were I collecting commemoratives I’d feel pretty confident buying off the internet (assuming good pictures). If I couldn’t buy on-site, I’d be less confident with the big auction houses. That’s because they usually show one, or at most two pictures.
Steve, not all people have the same tastes. I don’t collect modern guns in most cases but my opinion is exactly that, just my opinion. As far as bad pictures I feel there is no excuse for these. Take a picture, look at it and if you need to take another better one do so before you post.
I’ve said this time and again, if at all possible don’t buy anything you have not inspected first.
1 Guest(s)
