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Yes, there is a lot of confusion there and you are correct that the 40-90 Sharps straight is a 3 and 1/4 inch shell. My friend has a high wall in that caliber and I believe it is marked 40-90 SS. Sharps did not list that shell in their catalog and according to COW, the cartridge came out around 1885. That is 4 years after Sharps rifle company closed their doors. Who knows what was going on back then but a lot of it probably had to do with name and marketing. It would be interesting to find out what it was all about. There is a lot of misinformation out there so it’s hard to know what to believe.
Fellows,
Winchester made rifles and ammo for the 40-90 Sharps Straight (S.S.) and the 40 EX. (Express) because they are ballistically very different cartridges. The 40-90 S.S. was loaded with a much heavier bullet, and designed for long range shooting. The 40 EX. was designed as a shorter range, and faster velocity round. The only thing they have in common is the 3-1/4″ case length.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Well – we’ve come a long way from the initial .444 Marlin aspect of this thread – a huge bonus. I’ve learned a lot and have really enjoyed the knowledge and information that has been shared about the Sharps and Winchester cartridges. It has certainly added to my knowledge base. You never know where a thread is going to lead 🙂
Some really are shooters, and other collectors. I have collectors that will never leave where they are stored unless I sell them. Others have been taken out and hunted with. I’ve killed moose and brown bears with a deluxe model 71. Black bears and deer with a model 64. A ton of deer with model 94’s and pre 64 model 70’s. That’s something nice about the ones that aren’t in pristine condition. You can use them without worrying about ruining the value. I have 1st Gen Colt SAA revolvers I take out shooting, and even carry as a side arm. Others stay in the safe. They all put a smile on my face.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
Old Logger said
Some really are shooters, and other collectors. I have collectors that will never leave where they are stored unless I sell them. Others have been taken out and hunted with. I’ve killed moose and brown bears with a deluxe model 71. Black bears and deer with a model 64. A ton of deer with model 94’s and pre 64 model 70’s. That’s something nice about the ones that aren’t in pristine condition. You can use them without worrying about ruining the value. I have 1st Gen Colt SAA revolvers I take out shooting, and even carry as a side arm. Others stay in the safe. They all put a smile on my face.
Old Logger –
I enjoyed reading your comments and perspective. It sounds like you’ve had a very rich hunting history. I too, have some that are purely safe queens and others that make it out for a range trip. For me as well, they all put a smile on my face.
Bert H. said
Fellows,
Winchester made rifles and ammo for the 40-90 Sharps Straight (S.S.) and the 40 EX. (Express) because they are ballistically very different cartridges. The 40-90 S.S. was loaded with a much heavier bullet, and designed for long range shooting. The 40 EX. was designed as a shorter range, and faster velocity round. The only thing they have in common is the 3-1/4″ case length.
Bert
In theory, yes. From a practical standpoint no. At the muzzle, the Express starts out 230 fps faster than the 40-90 but at 100 yds, it has only a 70 fps advantage and has 275 foot pounds less energy and .4″ less penetration than the 40-90 with heavier bullet. There is less than an 1″ difference in elevation. These numbers are from the ballistics tables in the 1916 Winchester Facsimile. The only advantage may be in shocking power by leaving more of its energy in the game with its soft hollow pt. bullet rather than passing through. If that’s the case, it would make it a very close range cartridge as the velocity drops off so fast.
Chuck, If you have Campbell’s Second Volume, he compares the 40-110 as almost identical to the .450-.400 Ely Express. On the next page, is a Winchester ad. (Winchester Express “We Can Now Make To Order”).
Bert, I don’t see any 40-110’s or Express listed in your highwall #’s manufactured data base. They must be quite rare as well as the cartridge.
Chuck, If you have Campbell’s Second Volume, he compares the 40-110 as almost identical to the .450-.400 Ely Express. On the next page, is a Winchester ad. (Winchester Express “We Can Now Make To Order”).
Bert, I don’t see any 40-110’s or Express listed in your highwall #’s manufactured data base. They must be quite rare as well as the cartridge.
Thanks, I do have the book and will check it out.
Years ago when I used to pick for an older dealer I found, what I think was a 40 EX cartridge, my friend paid $1,000 for it. I could be wrong about the caliber but I know the 40 EX brings more money than the 38 EX or the 45-125. One of the Winchester cartridge boards had this round on it, but again I just can’t remember.
Old-Win said
Bert, I don’t see any 40-110’s or Express listed in your highwall #’s manufactured data base. They must be quite rare as well as the cartridge.
What data base are you referring to? Winchester manufactured (209) high-wall rifles in the 40 EX. cartridge (as opposed to (431) in 38 EX. and (631) in 45 EX.
Chuck, I have (1) full 10-round original box of 40 Express cartridges, and one partial with (6) cartridges in it. While it would take at least several thousand $$$$to get it out of my hands, it most certainly is not worth $10K.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
What data base are you referring to? Winchester manufactured (209) high-wall rifles in the 40 EX. cartridge (as opposed to (431) in 38 EX. and (631) in 45 EX.
Chuck, I have (1) full 10-round original box of 40 Express cartridges, and one partial with (6) cartridges in it. While it would take at least several thousand $$$$to get it out of my hands, it most certainly is not worth $10K.
Bert
I agree. A nice full box is worth more around $1000 and up. I know that the round I found for Walt was a Winchester and a 3-1/4″ case and he gladly paid $1,000 for it. Now, can you find me a highwall in one of the big 3 calibers or even a 50. Had a chance some time back to buy a 38 Ex and messed up and didn’t buy it.
steve004 said
Bullard rifles were mentioned in the discussion above. They are dear to my heart. Among my Bullards I have an, “Association” rifle. Anyone know what that is
Hello Steve,
This a very tardy reply to your query. Association was the name used by the Bullard people from January 1883 until October of 1883 when they changed the company name to the Bullard Repeating Arms Company from Bullard Repeating Arms Association. My research of 4 decades plus indicates about 100 rifles were stamped Association. I’m working on the 3rd and final edition of my Bullard books and if you have not already contacted me with information on those you own, please so so if you’d like them added to BULLARD ARMS FINIS. I’m closing this manuscript off shortly. [email protected]
Best regards,
Scott
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