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Here’s an interesting Model 1886 listing from GI. The seller states that “the serial number was removed when the rifle was sent back to the factory for the addition of the set trigger”. It has always been my understanding that the lower tangs without serial numbers in this model were the result of a change made by a gunsmith. Winchester made replacement lower tangs available to gunsmiths for repair or addition/deletion of set triggers. It seems that if an owner sent a rifle back to the factory for the addition of a set trigger, Winchester would simple mill the slot for the set screw in the existing lower tang and replace the necessary parts instead of inserting a serial numberless tang.
Also, the 29″ barrel length seems odd.
(Complete single set trigger lower tang without serial number.)
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
If Winchester did the work, the rifle would have left the factory with a serial number on it. In my research of the Model 1885 Single Shot, when a rifle was returned for a set trigger (lower tang), it was returned to the owner with a new serial number on it. The ledger entry (in the Remarks column) “New serial number xxxxx”. Winchester did not rework the existing tang, choosing instead to simply replace it with a newly serial numbered set trigger tang.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks, Bert, for the clarification as to how Winchester handled the addition of a single set trigger. That poses another question, though, regarding the ledger entry. I’m guessing the ledger entry would be made on the original serial number. Since after the modification that serial number rifle would no longer exist, did they also make a new entry for the new serial number so there would still be a record for that gun, or did they just make an entry for the old number? If an entry was made only for the old serial number, technically the new serial number didn’t exist and the old one would never be checked on.
I am, of course, looking at it from the reference point of the present. I doubt than Winchester ever anticipated there being a Cody Museum with records to authenticate old serial numbers a century after manufacture.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Winchester made an entry in the remarks column for both the original serial number and the new serial number. For the new serial number it was often simply noted “Tang only” and sometimes “old # xxxx”.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I have never came across that type of entry in the 73’s.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
I have never came across that type of entry in the 73’s.Bob
Bob,
I seriously doubt that very many Model 1873 rifles were ever returned to the factory for a set trigger. On the other hand, set triggers were very common on the Model 1885, with three different types of set triggers offered. My estimate is that approximately 20% – 25% of the total Model 1885 production was factory equipped with a set trigger. Also keep in mind that I have looked at 100% of the 109,999 available ledger entries for the Model 1885 (when I conducted the caliber survey). To the best of my knowledge, nobody has yet completed a 100% survey of the Model 1873 ledger records.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
That about the same in the 73’s. I’m finding the set trigger is the most common special feature of any feature at about 23%.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob,
Are you telling us that 23% of all 720,610 of the Model 1873s made have a set trigger ? I certainly do not see that many of them in my travels.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Of the guns I have surveyed and records I have checked but not all 720,610.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
Of the guns I have surveyed and records I have checked but not all 720,610.Bob
How many have you surveyed thus far?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
16,000
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob,,
That is a substantial number of surveyed 1873s, and you have found nearly 3,700 of them with set triggers. That is a very surprisingly high number !
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
I found so far 3708 set triggers out of 15956. I did find in the Madis book in the 73 section that when set triggers had a problem they replaced the whole tang and it didn’t have a serial number. It didn’t say if that was in the field or factory.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
Bert,I found so far 3708 set triggers out of 15956. I did find in the Madis book in the 73 section that when set triggers had a problem they replaced the whole tang and it didn’t have a serial number. It didn’t say if that was in the field or factory.
Bob
Bob,
Of the 3,708, how many of them do not letter with the set trigger?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
I could only find one that had a set trigger but did not letter. I have always tried to make note of any feature that was different than the letter. Now of course if the tang was replaced and it didn’t have a serial number it wouldn’t be in my survey. Of the 3708 guns with sets 3217 have been lettered.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
That is VERY interesting and pertinent data, Thanks! I would not have imagined that many ’73 set triggers but stats don’t lie. Thanks for all your efforts, just another reason these surveys are important.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Thats good stuff Bob. Whats the ratio for carbines vs. rifles with set trigger?
Regarding lower tangs without SN, 30 or so years ago my dad owned an 1886 deluxe, H-checked, PG, presentation grade wood, cheekpiece stock, etc. It did not have a serial number on the lower tang. He had always assumed it had a set trigger that was broke and the tang was replaced either by Winchester or by them sending a lower tang as parts without a SN.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Chris,
1.4% carbines 98.4 rifles and I have 2 muskets that letter with sets
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
Chris,1.4% carbines 98.4 rifles and I have 2 muskets that letter with sets
Bob
Nice work Bob!!! IT’s good to know that all this time we are wasting isn’t wasted time!!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
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