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November 8, 2011
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When a factory letter shows a return, and the information about what was done during the return is not detailed, what kind of deviations from the letter do most collectors find acceptable?
April 15, 2005
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Your question cannot be simply answered, as it will vary from person to person.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 2, 2009
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Some sellers tend to use it as a get out of jail free card to explain any deviation from the ledger. For myself I tend to shy away from guns that do not letter correctly. I don’t like to explain why the gun is different than the letter and it will always hold its value down. I like guns that sell themselves. Some collectors will put up with the addition of sling swivels.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 8, 2011
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1873man said
Some sellers tend to use it as a get out of jail free card to explain any deviation from the ledger. For myself I tend to shy away from guns that do not letter correctly. I don’t like to explain why the gun is different than the letter and it will always hold its value down. I like guns that sell themselves. Some collectors will put up with the addition of sling swivels.Bob
That’s pretty much why I was trying to start the conversation. Like you, I hate to see anything different than what the letter says. But, there are some interesting guns that have a return and now differ from the original letter. For me, I certainly draw the line on caliber changes and something like additional checkering or case coloring. But, it gets a little grayer from there.
December 31, 2012
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sb said
That’s pretty much why I was trying to start the conversation. Like you, I hate to see anything different than what the letter says. But, there are some interesting guns that have a return and now differ from the original letter. For me, I certainly draw the line on caliber changes and something like additional checkering or case coloring. But, it gets a little grayer from there.
I would imagine the ledgers to be off once in a while. I have a S&W 8 3/8″ M48-0, 4 screw variation with the three “T”s. I sent to Mr. Jinks for a letter and it came back as a 6” K-38. No way you can make a K-38 out of a M48 rimfire frame. He double checked and admitted it was a factory error in the ledger. There is no record of that M48-0 in the ledger. Big Larry
July 8, 2012
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sb said
That’s pretty much why I was trying to start the conversation. Like you, I hate to see anything different than what the letter says. But, there are some interesting guns that have a return and now differ from the original letter. For me, I certainly draw the line on caliber changes and something like additional checkering or case coloring. But, it gets a little grayer from there.
What about guns that are returned and the letter states exactly what was done? Pretty rare? Especially if more than sights or swivels?
May 2, 2009
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tionesta1 said
What about guns that are returned and the letter states exactly what was done? Pretty rare? Especially if more than sights or swivels?
If the gun matches the letter with a R&R your good to go but R&R’s that say what was done are rare.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
January 13, 2010
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Sometimes it isn’t a return but a request for pricing help…
March 21, 2016
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1873man said
Some sellers tend to use it as a get out of jail free card to explain any deviation from the ledger. For myself I tend to shy away from guns that do not letter correctly. I don’t like to explain why the gun is different than the letter and it will always hold its value down. I like guns that sell themselves. Some collectors will put up with the addition of sling swivels.Bob
Same here.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
November 7, 2015
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I have this fantasy that someday somebody will find the log books for the repair shop. There’s a very good chance they were lost years ago but we can always hope.
December 1, 2012
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TXGunNut said
I have this fantasy that someday somebody will find the log books for the repair shop. There’s a very good chance they were lost years ago but we can always hope.
You are the eternal optimist.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
May 2, 2009
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Chances are they burned in the plant furnace. Their is a old post on here that documented that they burned about 1000 file cabinets of paper records per year.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
May 23, 2009
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1873man said
Chances are they burned in the plant furnace. Their is a old post on here that documented that they burned about 1000 file cabinets of paper records per year.Bob
I always find it interesting that if it wasn’t for Edwin Pugsley and a few other employees, majority of the collection (firearms and paper records included) at the Cody Firearms Museum would have went to the scrap heap a long time ago.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
November 7, 2015
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Wincacher said
You are the eternal optimist.
I’ve shared my fantasy with a couple of people very familiar with the surviving archives. No encouragement from either but there are likely some very interesting documents still undiscovered in the archives. I learned this weekend that many of the surviving records were damaged by water when the factory basement flooded many years ago. Have also heard that many records were thought to be useless and were burned. But yes, I’m an optimist.
My grandmother wrote a weekly column for the newspaper in Bloomfield, NE about 75 years ago. All I knew when I started looking was that she wrote letters to the editor under a man’s name. I had only a vague idea about when the articles were written or even her nom de plume; as a fairly well-known woman she was not able to use her own name in the “letters to the editor” which were sometimes political and often satirical. But yes, I was lucky enough to find them and figure out what they were so I know that needles can be found in haystacks.
May 24, 2012
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I agree with Bob on his get out of jail free card comment. And, I also agree with Bert about his comment, “Your question cannot be simply answered, as it will vary from person to person.” Let me take the initial comment further in that the get out of jail free card works the other way, too, in the absence of verifiable references when nothing more than general comments are offered up as support to the contrary.
James
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