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November 7, 2015
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mrcvs said
Zebulon said
Bo, I think the problem is not so much a failure to inspect closely for collectors interested enough and heeled enough to consider buying such an apparently rare bird as a 38-55 caliber Model 70, but, as Lou has said, the fakers get better every year and it gets harder and harder to find clues indicating fraud.
These things are far out of my league, both financially and having any interest in owning one. I just have so little desire to own un-shootable specimens or the entire range of calibers of a given model, that I can’t get my head around why anybody would even want a 38-55 bolt action rifle. To me, it would be like owning a dead cat that had two tails — interesting for five minutes.
I suppose I’m exposing my blue collar roots but, as much as I love the Winchesters I couldn’t ever hope to see under our Christmas trees of the Fifties, if one of them should ever come to hand in stone NIB condition…. it would very soon never be “unfired” again. And the Hawaian Good Luck sign to those inclined to lecture me about it.
But that’s just me. I’ll be happy to marvel at anybody’s menagerie of two-tailed cats. As long as they play with them.
I don’t even think the faking needs to be that good. All you need is a big name auction house to write a good description and a few deep pocket individuals wanting that one of a kind object. They don’t have time to scrutinize it, they spend their time earning money, not worrying about a few idiosyncrasies when it comes to a Winchester rifle.
I think a good proportion of the Wes Adams collection might have been composed of firearms like this one. With deep pockets, amazing firearms found their way to him, some of which were built to attract his deep pockets not too long previously.
I believe you’re correct. The peers of the intended buyer will be impressed by a display case full of apparently high condition collectible firearms and 98% could care less if they’re what a discriminating collector would buy. It’s all about appearances in some circles. A nice story is a bonus. Auction houses understand this. Most buyers do too. Consigners laugh all the way to the bank.
Mike
Well, As I explain to my Wife, I am no Columbo, but I can figure things out. I enjoy looking a non-cataloged Model 70s. Or any Model 70 for that matter. Some are like a test. Figure out what is right, and what is wrong. I check all the boxes then things get interesting. OK, You can’t find anything wrong then is it right or just not wrong? Some are easy to figure while other are more difficult. I enjoy the challenge. It keeps things fresh, and interesting. Two pair of eyes are better then one. A collector that you can count on , and share knowledge is more valuable the gold! A little while ago someone was selling new in the box Model 70s. He had all kinds to choose from. But, the funny thing was that most of the boxes were wrong, along with the paperwork found inside. When I saw this I discredited the lot. How many people study boxes, and paperwork? I just need to find one thing wrong, or something that should be, and is not. To have a concern. Oh, before I go…..Just one more thing!
All you need is a big name auction house to write a good description and a few deep pocket individuals wanting that one of a kind object. mrcvs said
That’s the only “Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval” the fat-cats recognize; what others may think…irrelevant.
I can’t disagree with any of the foregoing. One of the real benefits of not being rich is you’re not constantly being targeted by the true maestros of the fraudulent arts. I had a friend, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, who never failed to wear his diamond-encrusted Rolex President to gun shows. He got nailed more often than a Las Vegas working girl and never understood why.
Mike, About 1995, or whenever Texas started issuing carry licenses, I passed my range test with a Colt Defender. I’d put a set of Chip McCormick thin grips on it and it was the best 3″ blaster I’ve ever owned. Down the road and who knows why.
Tom, that sound (which can be produced by a 5″ Super .38 as well) when heard in the dark, preferably accompanied by an aggressive, ¿ Quien es ?” strongly encourages things that go bump in the night to go away, unless you’ve earlier made someone very mad and theft is not the object. Then the best equipment is what’s in your hand plus Bluto the Doberman Pinscher. I can testify from experience that an Irish Setter is not the equivalent.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Zebulon said I had a friend, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, who never failed to wear his diamond-encrusted Rolex President to gun shows. He got nailed more often than a Las Vegas working girl and never understood why.
Was he wearing a heavy gold chain to go with it? I remember those chains & Presidents WELL, when I was doing shows in the ’80s. Good for that Vegas working girl!
Clarence,
As I recall it, his uniform of the day was camouflage utilities, jump boots if the occasion was formal, otherwise running shoes, a skull laden logo T-shirt, boonie, said Rolex, gold chains on wrist and neck, a couple of diamond rings.
Need I mention this specimen of Eighties manhood checked in a little short of 400 pounds at 5′ 6″? He could not have run because his ankles couldn’t take the stress nor could the width of his butt have squeezed through the door of most aircraft used to carry parachutists aloft. Available parachutes could not have saved him from exceeding Vne, either.
In my private lexicon. my friend was “Winchester Walt” because he was a die hard New Haven fan. Always complaining WRA wouldn’t build an AR platform.
I expect Walt or his spiritual buddies visited your tables, at one time or another.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
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Zebulon said
Clarence,As I recall it, his uniform of the day was camouflage utilities, jump boots if the occasion was formal, otherwise running shoes, a skull laden logo T-shirt, boonie, said Rolex, gold chains on wrist and neck, a couple of diamond rings.
Need I mention this specimen of Eighties manhood checked in a little short of 400 pounds at 5′ 6″? He could not have run because his ankles couldn’t take the stress nor could the width of his butt have squeezed through the door of most aircraft used to carry parachutists aloft. Available parachutes could not have saved him from exceeding Vne, either.
In my private lexicon. my friend was “Winchester Walt” because he was a die hard New Haven fan. Always complaining WRA wouldn’t build an AR platform.
I expect Walt or his spiritual buddies visited your tables, at one time or another.
Thanks for the memories, gentlemen. Gun shows were an adventure for me and probably others here in the 80’s. Other than collector shows I’ve been to maybe two regular gun shows in the past 30 years. I may get a table at one someday soon to downsize and focus my reloading operation. I remember a few folks like your friend Walt, Bill. Guys like him lived for gun shows.
Mike
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