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Gentlemen,
I have been shopping for a Lyman Super Targetspot for my Van Orden and found a nice one with serial number 7980. Anyone have any idea when Lyman #7980 was made? I would like to get one near the date of my 1952 Van Orden Model 70.
Thanks!
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Here is a picture of my # 272958, with a “53” dated bbl. I have a copy of the original forms showing the rifle for sale at the 1954 NM’s. It was US marked until some paranoid idiot ground off the US markings. The rifle is shown in Peter Senichs “One Round War” At that time it belonged to noted US martial arms collector Lt. Herb Rosenbaum, who gave the rifle to me. Big Larry
JWA said
Gentlemen,I have been shopping for a Lyman Super Targetspot for my Van Orden and found a nice one with serial number 7980. Anyone have any idea when Lyman #7980 was made?
Thanks!
If that’s the correct no., it’s a pre-war scope. #10,319 (mine) was built in ’41. These nos. may help you to estimate where a ’50s no. would fall: #15,194=1948, #17,227=1949. The later scopes came with a metal, rather than wooden, box, but I don’t know when the metal box was first used.
clarence said
If that’s the correct no., it’s a pre-war scope. #10,319 (mine) was built in ’41. These nos. may help you to estimate where a ’50s no. would fall: #15,194=1948, #17,227=1949. The later scopes came with a metal, rather than wooden, box, but I don’t know when the metal box was first used.
Clarence,
Great info, thanks!
It is in a wood Lyman box and the number “7980” directly follows the word “Super Targetspot” on the scope tube. My Van Orden is circa 1952 so your #17,227 is very helpful.
Thanks for responding, that gives me a ballpark to work with now.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
clarence said
If that’s the correct no., it’s a pre-war scope. #10,319 (mine) was built in ’41. These nos. may help you to estimate where a ’50s no. would fall: #15,194=1948, #17,227=1949. The later scopes came with a metal, rather than wooden, box, but I don’t know when the metal box was first used.
Not all the later scopes came in a metal container. They made different wood boxes in different periods. In my collection I have STS # 1036 that was built 4-29-1939. It has the original style wood box with the fancy locks. I also had a US marked STS from 1956 that had the later style box with the standard locks.
The copy of the original order for # 1036 says it was made with 3 point mounts and had .0007 crosswires and was a 10X. Big Larry
Big Larry said
It has the original style wood box with the fancy locks. Big Larry
The ones you can never be sure are completely latched? One of Rube Goldberg’s inventions, if I’m not mistaken. After having mine start to open a few times as I picked it up, I wrapped a velco strap around the box to make double sure it couldn’t happen again.
Curious thing about those boxes is that they were never illustrated or even mentioned in Lyman catalogs, at least pre-war; yet the vast majority of STSs are found in them. I think the “standard” box was actually cardboard, but they are extremely rare–have seen only a couple in 40+ yrs. The metal box was probably a ’60s thing.
Probably a pressed paper box like the other mfgs. used. I am thinking the majority came in the wood box as most you see are in one. The metal ones seem to be a little elusive and I don’t remember seeing a paper box. I have sold most of mine off and do no longer collect them. Big Larry
Here is a picture of an STS from my collection, that was sold in 1969 and came in a cardboard box.
Steve
seewin said
Here is a picture of an STS from my collection, that was sold in 1969 and came in a cardboard box.Steve
Very unusual that all the paperwork survived! But the cardboard box that I remember seeing had Lyman graphics on the outside, so this is one I haven’t seen. Wish someone with a ’60s Lyman catalog would check to see if the metal box was an extra cost option.
Here is a box for the Junior Targetspot. I will check my catalogs for when the metal box was introduced.
Steve
JWA said
Gentlemen,I have been shopping for a Lyman Super Targetspot for my Van Orden and found a nice one with serial number 7980. Anyone have any idea when Lyman #7980 was made? I would like to get one near the date of my 1952 Van Orden Model 70.
Thanks!
JW,
Going on my scoped Winchester 64 .219 Zipper that has a PR DOM of 1937, and the 15X Lyman STS serial numbered 8187 that has most likely been married to it since that time, I’d say that SN 7980 was 1937.
James
clarence said
If that’s the correct no., it’s a pre-war scope. #10,319 (mine) was built in ’41. These nos. may help you to estimate where a ’50s no. would fall: #15,194=1948, #17,227=1949. The later scopes came with a metal, rather than wooden, box, but I don’t know when the metal box was first used.
Clarence your information and Big Larry’s is very interesting. My STS is SN 8187 and it has the 3 point mount. What year would you place on my scope for a DOM.
James
jwm94 said
Clarence your information and Big Larry’s is very interesting. My STS is SN 8187 and it has the 3 point mount. What year would you place on my scope for a DOM.
James
Am assuming Larry dropped a “0” in reporting his, making it actually 10,036. Being a cheapskate, I didn’t purchase a letter like his (and which can’t be done at the present time), but was going by a name and date (1941) written inside the box. Judging, however, by Larry’s known date, I think mine is much more likely ’39, or ’40 at the latest. So yours must be earlier, ’38 maybe? Can’t be much earlier, as production began in ’37. All STSs were provided with the 3-point, likewise the STS Jr.; the 4-point was supplied only on the original TS, which remained in the catalog as late as 1940 (probably old stock being sold off).
I have checked all my Lyman catalogs and scopes, and the closest date I can pin down for the introduction of the steel STS box is between 1966 and 68. My 1968 catalog list the STS as coming with the steel box. All earlier catalogs I have list the wood box. I also have a mint STS #25415 that is still in original wood box. This scope was presented to the 1966 Camp Perry National Smallbore Champion along with a factory engraved 52D Winchester. The scope and rifle both came from the original champion and have never been separated, so I am relatively sure Lyman was using the wood box up until at least mid 1966. This particular box is the typical late style wood box without the finger joint corners and it also has the more positive latches.
Also, attached are some pictures of an earlier STS and its original box from around 1940. As you can see in pics, box is gray instead of blue, and still no graphics or identification of any type. This scope came with a mint 52B manufactured in 1940, and based on the condition of scope and rifle, I would bet they were purchased in late 1940. S/N of this scope is 2618.
Steve
seewin said
I have checked all my Lyman catalogs and scopes, and the closest date I can pin down for the introduction of the steel STS box is between 1966 and 68. My 1968 catalog list the STS as coming with the steel box. All earlier catalogs I have list the wood box. I also have a mint STS #25415 that is still in original wood box. This scope was presented to the 1966 Camp Perry National Smallbore Champion along with a factory engraved 52D Winchester. The scope and rifle both came from the original champion and have never been separated, so I am relatively sure Lyman was using the wood box up until at least mid 1966. This particular box is the typical late style wood box without the finger joint corners and it also has the more positive latches.Also, attached are some pictures of an earlier STS and its original box from around 1940. As you can see in pics, box is gray instead of blue, and still no graphics or identification of any type. This scope came with a mint 52B manufactured in 1940, and based on the condition of scope and rifle, I would bet they were purchased in late 1940. S/N of this scope is 2618.
Steve
Some really incredible rarities (not that you aren’t well aware). Amazing that no one, since 1940, put to proper use the rifle and scope, because if anyone had, the box would probably have been lost. Did the original owner buy them and then drop dead the next day?
Would not have guessed the wooden box survived into the mid-’60s, so thanks for this surprising info.
Still not clear to me how a STS buyer wanting the wooden box could have ordered it. In my “newest” Lyman catalog, which includes the complete 1941 price lists, a leather case is listed, along with leather lens caps (neither of which I’ve ever seen), rubber eye cups, etc., but NO wooden box. Likewise, the recoil spring fitted on almost every STS is not listed either. Maybe these items were carried in stock by Lyman dealers, but it’s still hard to believe there was no mention of them in the catalog.
I have found that the general Lyman catalogs go into little detail about the STS scopes and their options. The scope catalogs and price lists are much better. I have a 1968 price list that shows the basic scope for $135.00, metal carrying case at $10.00 , sunshade at $2.00 , eyecup at $.50 and recoil spring at $3.75. These are all stand alone prices for each item. They do recommend that the recoil spring be installed at factory. I have seen earlier price lists that show none of the extra items. So, I would assume when you order your scope, order it with the extra items, order them separately at a later date or quite possibly a stocking dealer might have what you want.
Steve
seewin said
I have found that the general Lyman catalogs go into little detail about the STS scopes and their options. The scope catalogs and price lists are much better.
Steve
The later ones (which I don’t have), but not those up to 1950, if my interpretation of the printer’s code on a STS brochure is correct. Up to that point, they’re never photographed with a recoil spring attached. I’ve wondered if Lyman’s silence on this subject had something to do with the fact that they were obtaining them, covertly, from John Unertl, who was the first to market them; in fact, these springs was his first advertised product when he went into business for himself.
clarence said
Am assuming Larry dropped a “0” in reporting his, making it actually 10,036. Being a cheapskate, I didn’t purchase a letter like his (and which can’t be done at the present time), but was going by a name and date (1941) written inside the box. Judging, however, by Larry’s known date, I think mine is much more likely ’39, or ’40 at the latest. So yours must be earlier, ’38 maybe? Can’t be much earlier, as production began in ’37. All STSs were provided with the 3-point, likewise the STS Jr.; the 4-point was supplied only on the original TS, which remained in the catalog as late as 1940 (probably old stock being sold off).
That’s the serial number. #1036. Things were better at Parsons when the old man was alive. Big Larry
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