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My 1873 rifle 44 WCF S/N 447xxx carrier started blocking the cartridge from entering the chamber. The carrier comes all the way up but falls some blocking the bolt. You can slightly push up the carrier from the bottom to allow bolt to move forward. Took off the plates lever spring and carrier spring look ok. Action works fine other than the carrier and is tight closes with a “snap” I have not looked at the lifter arm. Would really appreciate some help.
Claude,
Does the elevator hang below the bottom of the receiver when the actions closed? It should be flush with the bottom. The most common problems are worn elevator because its made from a soft metal or someone bent the lifter arm.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Hi Bob I have the rifle in hand. The carrier is flush with bottom of receiver. With lever closed and pushing on bottom of block lever starts to move down. When you pull the lever all the way down the block does not move up far enough for the bolt to clear. Push up on the bottom of block and bolt will pass over block.
Bob when you pull down lever on my 73 38WCF rifle s/n552447 there is a little more tension than the 44. Also the block on 38 moves all the way up and when up, there is very little movement when you push the bottom of the block. The 44 and 38 blocks both are flush.
Claude,
The difference in tension of the lever between your guns is probable the spring and cam that is on the left side of the lever. The cam and spring wear out and the lever will not stay up on its own. The elevator block can be difficult to figure out without being in hand since there are multiple things that can affect it. Parts could of been swapped over time, elevator wear, lefter bent or worn, the bolt or receiver worn allowing the bolt to sag.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob thanks. This is getting over my head. The inside of both guns to me looks good. Free of rust, don’t see a lot of wear, and both chambered and ejected cartridges until the problem with the 44. I have only looked inside and never removed the links ect. Do have instructions in the book “1873 Handbook” by Stone but don’t know what I’m looking for. Looks like I need a qualified 1873 Gunsmith in North/Central Florida, anybody know of any?
claude said
My 1873 rifle 44 WCF S/N 447xxx carrier started blocking the cartridge from entering the chamber. The carrier comes all the way up but falls some blocking the bolt. You can slightly push up the carrier from the bottom to allow bolt to move forward. Took off the plates lever spring and carrier spring look ok. Action works fine other than the carrier and is tight closes with a “snap” I have not looked at the lifter arm. Would really appreciate some help.
Hi Claude, did you ever find out what the problem was of the carrier blocking the bolt from closing? My “73” is doing the same thing.
I’ve replaced a number of internal parts including my springs and lifter arm. The problem with the carrier “slump” is with the carrier itself. If you notice the gap between the breech wall and the brass carrier is roughly 1/16” when held up with the lever but slumps a bit when moving the finger lever to the rear. The gap closes between the carrier and breech wall when the carrier slumps down. It’s due to carrier wear. If you hold up the carrier breech side to the left you’ll see less material (brass) on the top leading edge than at the bottom. It’s slight, roughly 1/16” less at the top than bottom. It was caused by repeated travel up and down the breech wall. The brass is soft and therefore easily losing to the hard steel wall. The remedy is something I’m working on now. Perhaps a smithy could draw out some of the brass to replace the missing portion or finding a less worn carrier is all that comes to mind. Anybody found any other solution?
Texas Stax
1873man said
Claude,The difference in tension of the lever between your guns is probable the spring and cam that is on the left side of the lever. The cam and spring wear out and the lever will not stay up on its own. The elevator block can be difficult to figure out without being in hand since there are multiple things that can affect it. Parts could of been swapped over time, elevator wear, lefter bent or worn, the bolt or receiver worn allowing the bolt to sag.
Bob
Bob can the screw on the bottom of the receiver be adjusted? Isn’t one for the lifter and the other for the lever? Sometimes people play with these not knowing what they are for..
After disassembly and reassembly I paid closer attention to the screws and how I tightened them. This time I rolled the rifle over and watched as the carrier lever screw slowly snugged the carrier lever spring down under full tension. (Both spring and carrier lever are new) once I completed all reassembly with full tension on the spring screws. The finger lever is snappy crisp and the carrier stays up on its own after pulling back on the finger lever to chamber the round and close the breech.
ITS ALIVE!
please disregard my previous post earlier today. It’s what happens when i get my intuition in the way of my application ?
thanks Cwachter
btw I use to work for Wachter Network Services. Any relation?
cwachter said
Bob can the screw on the bottom of the receiver be adjusted? Isn’t one for the lifter and the other for the lever? Sometimes people play with these not knowing what they are for..
If you are talking about the two screws forward of the lever, they are not adjustments. They hold the springs that keep the lever and the carrier lever in position. backing them off will just reduce spring tension and will give you a hanging lever or the carrier sagging. The problem with those springs is they wear at the point they contact the lever or the carrier lever. The lever has a cam that spring rides on and that cam wears down. That cam is replaceable. Another source of the carrier slump is the just wear of the brass (gun metal) either on the sides or inside where the carrier lever rides.
The only adjustment on the 73 is for the main spring tension.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
[email protected] said
After disassembly and reassembly I paid closer attention to the screws and how I tightened them. This time I rolled the rifle over and watched as the carrier lever screw slowly snugged the carrier lever spring down under full tension. (Both spring and carrier lever are new) once I completed all reassembly with full tension on the spring screws. The finger lever is snappy crisp and the carrier stays up on its own after pulling back on the finger lever to chamber the round and close the breech.ITS ALIVE!
please disregard my previous post earlier today. It’s what happens when i get my intuition in the way of my application ?
thanks Cwachter
btw I use to work for Wachter Network Services. Any relation?
No relation that I know of.
1873man said
If you are talking about the two screws forward of the lever, they are not adjustments. They hold the springs that keep the lever and the carrier lever in position. backing them off will just reduce spring tension and will give you a hanging lever or the carrier sagging. The problem with those springs is they wear at the point they contact the lever or the carrier lever. The lever has a cam that spring rides on and that cam wears down. That cam is replaceable. Another source of the carrier slump is the just wear of the brass (gun metal) either on the sides or inside where the carrier lever rides.
The only adjustment on the 73 is for the main spring tension.
Bob
I have been told not to overtighten these screws. If they were too tight would this lead to excess wear?
The two spring screws forward of the lever have to be tight. They are tight on all guns I’ve taken apart. If they are loosened the spring curls more and will ride in a different spot throwing off where the lever and carrier lever hang slightly.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Initially, Keeping them a bit looser was my way of lessening the wear on the levers. But like you’ve stated they travel across the levers at a different groove when they’re not as tight. I cranked them down sufficiently and they now travel properly across the finger lever lobe as well as the proper small half circle shaped notch along the carrier lever. Both are actioning like a new firearm with the replacements. It snaps open with the brass carrier coming up swiftly and cleanly launching the spent casing. Pulling the lever back is smooth now with the steady waiting carrier allowing the new case chambering. The breech is locking closed with an audible snap! The finger lever now rests snuggly against the base of the trigger assembly pushing up on the trigger safety. Where as before it was so slack from the worn out parts it would hang down nearly 2 inches below the trigger assembly.
Btw I had to drill and retap the dust cover spring screw (third model) and I luckily found another vintage screw and spring for it. It’s working fine now. Stays securely closed and securely open.
A lot of the above described problem is caused by worn, after market, or 66 springs, installed in 73’s. The curve affects the length of the spring. 66 springs are slightly shorter, after market are any ones guess, and worn or bent can be a problem. I’ve seen carrier levers bent or the spring notch filed on in an attempt to make the carrier move higher. Yes the spring screws are supposed to be tight. If loosening the screws makes it work you have a problem. No substitute for original parts! T/R
Actually, in the original 1873 manuals, those 2 screws were indicated as adjustable although I always keep them tight.
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