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Interesting discussion regarding the foreign marks on Winchesters. I don’t think I harbor a preference either way and if a gun was original and correct and I really liked the caliber, configuration and condition, I would not walk away just because it had foreign marks – its still a Winchester! However, I assure everyone the dislike by some for guns with foreign proof marks has always been around. Over 30 years ago I was interested in adding a Model 1876 in 50-95 caliber to my collection. I wanted a checkered, case hardened gun so that narrowed the playing field quite a bit. At least at that time, guns like I wanted were not that easy to find and when you did find them it seemed like they always had the British proof marks. I was told that was because a lot of the 50 caliber guns were going to be used to hunt in places like Africa and India and for whatever reason went thru England. I remember several old timers telling me not to buy a gun with the British marks – in fact I vividly remember Lewis Yearout telling me I should buy a gun that had history on the American frontier. Eventually I found and purchased a case hardened 76 deluxe in 50 caliber which had spent its life right here in Alaska – I still have the gun.
Were all guns which made their way across the ocean in those days required to have marks applied when they reached a foreign country – if so, was this a U.S. requirement or a requirement of the country to which the gun was imported?
Burt Humphrey said
Interesting discussion regarding the foreign marks on Winchesters. I don’t think I harbor a preference either way and if a gun was original and correct and I really liked the caliber, configuration and condition, I would not walk away just because it had foreign marks – its still a Winchester! However, I assure everyone the dislike by some for guns with foreign proof marks has always been around. Over 30 years ago I was interested in adding a Model 1876 in 50-95 caliber to my collection. I wanted a checkered, case hardened gun so that narrowed the playing field quite a bit. At least at that time, guns like I wanted were not that easy to find and when you did find them it seemed like they always had the British proof marks. I was told that was because a lot of the 50 caliber guns were going to be used to hunt in places like Africa and India and for whatever reason went thru England. I remember several old timers telling me not to buy a gun with the British marks – in fact I vividly remember Lewis Yearout telling me I should buy a gun that had history on the American frontier. Eventually I found and purchased a case hardened 76 deluxe in 50 caliber which had spent its life right here in Alaska – I still have the gun.Were all guns which made their way across the ocean in those days required to have marks applied when they reached a foreign country – if so, was this a U.S. requirement or a requirement of the country to which the gun was imported?
What did you shoot the bear with? I have taken a very large black bear boar with a model 64 in .32 Special, and a 9 1/2 Brownie with a model 71 .348
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
Burt Humphrey said
Were all guns which made their way across the ocean in those days required to have marks applied when they reached a foreign country – if so, was this a U.S. requirement or a requirement of the country to which the gun was imported?
I think only Britain imposed this requirement, & not out of any legitimate safety concern, but to protect British gunmakers by discouraging foreign imports.
clarence said
I think only Britain imposed this requirement, & not out of any legitimate safety concern, but to protect British gunmakers by discouraging foreign imports.
I believe that the Belgians and French also proofed and stamped Winchesters imported into their countries.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Old Logger said
What did you shoot the bear with? I have taken a very large black bear boar with a model 64 in .32 Special, and a 9 1/2 Brownie with a model 71 .348
Old Logger – I shot that particular bear in the photo with a 300 Winchester magnum, 180 grain bullet. The bear is a nice interior grizzly – I took him in the Petersville area a long time ago. He is 9′ between the front paws – not as big as others I have taken, especially one from Kodiak Island I shot back in the 70’s. I have not ever hunted with or don’t even shoot my old Winchester levers – I know a lot of guys do and I admire and respect them for that.
Bert H. said
I believe that the Belgians and French also proofed and stamped Winchesters imported into their countries.
Bert
Bert – last night I was looking at a Model 1887 shotgun – a really high condition deluxe with a museum letter saying it was shipped to Paris, France. There are no foreign marks on the gun. I wonder if the requirement to be inspected/proofed/stamped only applied to retailers and not individuals or if some just slipped thru the cracks – out of my league. As you would expect, the letter only says shipped to Paris, France under order number xxxx. I don’t know squat about gun laws that may have been existence around the turn of the century.
I believe that the Belgians and French also proofed and stamped Winchesters imported into their countries.
Bert.
thats correct Bert, the sa of mine on the previous page has the Belguim marks.
Bert – last night I was looking at a Model 1887 shotgun – a really high condition deluxe with a museum letter saying it was shipped to Paris, France. There are no foreign marks on the gun. I wonder if the requirement to be inspected/proofed/stamped only applied to retailers and not individuals or if some just slipped thru the cracks – out of my league. As you would expect, the letter only says shipped to Paris, France under order number xxxx. I don’t know squat about gun laws that may have been existence around the turn of the century.
Also correct , iff imported for personal use and not retail, no proof was needed, i believe.
December 8, 2024
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Tony. R said
I believe that the Belgians and French also proofed and stamped Winchesters imported into their countries.Bert.
thats correct Bert, the sa of mine on the previous page has the Belguim marks.
Bert – last night I was looking at a Model 1887 shotgun – a really high condition deluxe with a museum letter saying it was shipped to Paris, France. There are no foreign marks on the gun. I wonder if the requirement to be inspected/proofed/stamped only applied to retailers and not individuals or if some just slipped thru the cracks – out of my league. As you would expect, the letter only says shipped to Paris, France under order number xxxx. I don’t know squat about gun laws that may have been existence around the turn of the century.
Also correct , iff imported for personal use and not retail, no proof was needed, i believe.
I have a used Winchester/Miroku 1895 in 405Win. and it has Belgian Proofs and it was brought to Australia about 5 years ago from the UK but no British proofs , I think in EU they recognise each others proofs, but I think the proofs add to a rifle not detract , I have a 1911 Winchester 1895 in 405 and it has British proofs and one 1926 1895 in 303 British but only Winchester proofs….
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