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Pre 64 Model 70--what to look for?
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June 2, 2019 - 8:04 pm
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Everything on this topic is of interest but specifically what screw holes are factory on a non scoped pre 64 Model 70.

I know pre war is more desirable.  Having said that, at a local auction a 95% condition one 1951 production in .30-06 sold for $850.  $935 plus tax with 10% buyer’s premium, more off site.

Seems cheap to me, maybe I’m missing something.

Hence, the question.

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June 2, 2019 - 9:07 pm
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mrcvs said

Seems cheap to me, maybe I’m missing something.
  

Only, perhaps, that .30-06 (never mind that it’s the best general-purpose big game cartridge ever developed) is probably the most common chambering.  But compared to prices of current production guns, it IS cheap for the quality that price bought.

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June 2, 2019 - 10:57 pm
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mrcvs said
Everything on this topic is of interest but specifically what screw holes are factory on a non scoped pre 64 Model 70.

Hi mrcvs-

I’ll respond to your question based on what’s “usually correct” for period (understand that I would not quibble much over “exceptions” to this):

Type I Actions (clover leaf tang, roll marked bridge, clip slot):  On both standard and H&H length actions, the factory D&T holes were two 6-48 on the top of the receiver ring, two on the left side rear to accommodate a receiver sight.  No other holes…  Bridge NOT drilled on top.

Type II Actions (clover leaf tang, smooth bridge, clip slot only on 30-06 target receivers):  Here things get complicated… 1) Standard cartridge (except 30-06 target models).  Receiver top D&T, left side D&T for receiver sight, bridge top D&T.  2)  H&H Magnum length action.  Receiver top D&T, left side D&T for receiver sight, bridge top NOT D&T.  3) Target model in 30-06 only (includes National Match, Target and Bull Gun, but ONLY in 30-06).  Receiver top D&T, left side D&T for receiver sight, bridge top NOT D&T. The target receivers intended for 30-06 were the only type II-III M70 receivers that retained a clip loading slot after the pre-war period.  

Type III Actions (oval tang, smooth bridge, clip slot only on 30-06 target receivers):  A little less complicated, but not much…  1) Standard cartridge (except 30-06 target models).  Receiver top D&T, left side D&T for receiver sight, bridge top D&T.  2)  H&H Magnum length action.  Receiver top D&T, left side D&T for receiver sight, bridge top D&T after about S/N 120,000 but NOT D&T before.  3) Target model in 30-06 (includes National Match, Target and Bull Gun, but only in 30-06).  Bridge top D&T after about S/N 120,000 but NOT D&T before.  

This last issue, i.e. when did the factory start to D&T the bridge of H&H and 30-06 target actions (the receivers that needed different hole spacing on the bridge) is best answered by saying there was A LOT of overlap.  I’ve seen type III M70s in those two categories with S/Ns into the low 170,000 range that were NOT D&T, but many more in the 120,000 – 170,000 range that have factory (looking) D&T holes on the bridge.

Aren’t you sorry you asked???? Laugh

Best,

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

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June 2, 2019 - 11:51 pm
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Louis Luttrell said

mrcvs said
Everything on this topic is of interest but specifically what screw holes are factory on a non scoped pre 64 Model 70.

Hi mrcvs-

I’ll respond to your question based on what’s “usually correct” for period (understand that I would not quibble much over “exceptions” to this):

Type I Actions (clover leaf tang, roll marked bridge, clip slot):  On both standard and H&H length actions, the factory D&T holes were two 6-48 on the top of the receiver ring, two on the left side rear to accommodate a receiver sight.  No other holes…  Bridge NOT drilled on top.

Type II Actions (clover leaf tang, smooth bridge, clip slot only on 30-06 target receivers):  Here things get complicated… 1) Standard cartridge (except 30-06 target models).  Receiver top D&T, left side D&T for receiver sight, bridge top D&T.  2)  H&H Magnum length action.  Receiver top D&T, left side D&T for receiver sight, bridge top NOT D&T.  3) Target model in 30-06 only (includes National Match, Target and Bull Gun, but ONLY in 30-06).  Receiver top D&T, left side D&T for receiver sight, bridge top NOT D&T. The target receivers intended for 30-06 were the only type II-III M70 receivers that retained a clip loading slot after the pre-war period.  

Type III Actions (oval tang, smooth bridge, clip slot only on 30-06 target receivers):  A little less complicated, but not much…  1) Standard cartridge (except 30-06 target models).  Receiver top D&T, left side D&T for receiver sight, bridge top D&T.  2)  H&H Magnum length action.  Receiver top D&T, left side D&T for receiver sight, bridge top D&T after about S/N 120,000 but NOT D&T before.  3) Target model in 30-06 (includes National Match, Target and Bull Gun, but only in 30-06).  Bridge top D&T after about S/N 120,000 but NOT D&T before.  

This last issue, i.e. when did the factory start to D&T the bridge of H&H and 30-06 target actions (the receivers that needed different hole spacing on the bridge) is best answered by saying there was A LOT of overlap.  I’ve seen type III M70s in those two categories with S/Ns into the low 170,000 range that were NOT D&T, but many more in the 120,000 – 170,000 range that have factory (looking) D&T holes on the bridge.

Aren’t you sorry you asked???? Laugh

Best,

Lou  

THANK YOU!

Are photographs possible?

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June 3, 2019 - 12:43 am
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Hi mrcvs-

A complete set of everything above is not in my existing photo archive.  You’ll have to wait until I can get my stuff all in one place and take systematic pics for the planned “book”.  More of a plan than a contract and more of a”vanity eBook” that may/may not ever become publicly available, but whatever…

If you forgive the poor quality photos… Cry

The pre-war receivers are all like this (.257 ROBERTS carbine S/N 40586): 

40586-pre-war-.jpgImage Enlarger

This would include the H&H Magnums except they have the curved relief on the top of the bridge instead of a clip slot.  At this point the target model receivers were identical to the standard receivers.

The standard transition receivers are all like this (.220 SWIFT target model S/N 64932):

64932-transition.jpgImage Enlarger

The H&H length and 30-06 target model receivers are like this (.30 GOV’T’06 target model S/N 87131):

87131-transition.jpgImage Enlarger

The only difference between the H&H receivers and target receivers is that the former has the curved cut-away bridge to allow loading the longer H&H cartridges while the target receiver has the clip slot.

The run-of-the-mill oval tang receivers (comprising most of pre-64 M70 production) look like this (.300 WIN MAGNUM Westerner-Alaskan S/N 578367):

578367-later-standard.jpgImage Enlarger

The D&T oval tang H&H actions look like this (.375 H&H MAGNUM Standard Rifle S/N 335307):

335307-later-HH.jpgImage Enlarger

The D&T oval tang target actions (with clip slot) look like this (.30-06 SPFLD Target Model S/N 351439):

351439-later-30-06-target.jpgImage Enlarger

Finally, the relatively rare undrilled oval tang H&H Magnum and Target Models look like this (.375 MAGNUM Standard Rifle S/N 170827):

170827-later-HH-not-DT.jpgImage Enlarger

Sorry that the cross bar of the receiver sight is partly in the way in this scavenged photo, but of you compare to the hole spacing in the previous photo you can tell this one is not D&T.

Hope this helps… Laugh  Best I can do on short order…

Cheers,

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

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