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Pre-64 Model 70 .257 Roberts
November 17, 2020
10:57 pm
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Hi Guys,

What is the estimated value of the above rifle?   There is one at the local gun store new in the box.  Serial number 210816 dates it to 1952.

So what do the experts say?

November 18, 2020
12:01 am
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My guess Is they are going to want pictures ……….

November 18, 2020
2:21 am
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Yea, I know.  The only pictures I could get were the serial number and the top of the box…… i know that’s not enough.  

For what it’s worth. The rifle was still wrapped in grease paper. Bolt still in the cardboard compartment. Bolt matched the reciever for serial number.  Hang tags and model 70 booklet included. 20201117_141133.jpgImage Enlarger20201117_141157.jpgImage Enlarger

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November 18, 2020
2:55 am
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looks like it could be a great find

November 18, 2020
4:31 am
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Bill Hanzel said
looks like it could be a great find  

Could be, & a 70 Roberts is a great find regardless of anything else, but can’t help being suspicious of box & tag, as both (as so many paper items) are being faked.

November 18, 2020
5:02 pm
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I definitely am aware of a lot of the paper items are faked.  So even if the box and paperwork could be suspect, what would the value of a 95% pre64 .257 roberts be worth? I wont say unfired….we’ll leave that out on side of caution/error  gunsinternational there is a .257 roberts with box going for $5200.   Is that a reasonable or unreasonable price?

clarence said

Could be, & a 70 Roberts is a great find regardless of anything else, but can’t help being suspicious of box & tag, as both (as so many paper items) are being faked.  

November 18, 2020
6:13 pm
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Box looks too new to me.  A 68 year old box should have some signs of age.   No way to respond on the rifle and even if I could see it I am not a Model 70 collector.   But if the box is new what else might be not correct?  Need pictures.

November 18, 2020
8:27 pm
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Manuel said
I definitely am aware of a lot of the paper items are faked.  So even if the box and paperwork could be suspect, what would the value of a 95% pre64 .257 roberts be worth? I wont say unfired….we’ll leave that out on side of caution/error  gunsinternational there is a .257 roberts with box going for $5200.   Is that a reasonable or unreasonable price?

  

If it’s on GI, isn’t that just the asking price?  And maybe the box with it IS original, though I doubt that would add more than a few hundred to value. 

If the box looks new, as the one you posted does, the gun ought to look equally new, not 95%.

Seewin & Louis are the best ones to appraise its value.

November 18, 2020
9:27 pm
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clarence said

If it’s on GI, isn’t that just the asking price?  And maybe the box with it IS original, though I doubt that would add more than a few hundred to value. 

If the box looks new, as the one you posted does, the gun ought to look equally new, not 95%.

Seewin & Louis are the best ones to appraise its value.  

Clarence,

I used the 95% percent as a benchmark.  I dont’ want to say 100% because i am not expert in bluing or model 70s.  I guess at this point with everything possibly being fake,  my question is….what would the value of this rifle no box, nothing…just the rifle…..

I sent a pm to Louis already…just waiting on his reply……

November 19, 2020
4:34 pm
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Hi Manuel-

Seewin knows more much about the boxes M70s came in than I do (as well as the M70s themselves).  So don’t take my opinion (below) as based on solid fact… Wink

That said I have concerns about that box.  Besides being entirely too “clean” the cardboard is probably wrong.  Winchester didn’t start using corrugated cardboard until sometime in the 1950’s (I think) about the time the red “W” overprinted boxes supplanted the plain top boxes with the stick-on blue and white label.  Before that the pasteboard boxes were different.

Another clue might be the end label.  One thing Olin Corporation was very good at was making sure that the Winchester product labels had the correct Corporate Name on them.  The name changed several times over the years, as spelled out nicely in Bob Renneberg’s M94 book.  I think that the end label at this time (1952) ought to say “Winchester Repeating Arms Company – Division of Olin Industries, Inc. – New Haven, Conn. U.S.A.” Like this:

SN-221273-box-label.pngImage Enlarger

People printing “new” end labels don’t always follow these changes, so often the wrong corporate address is a giveaway even when an original box is used.  I always try to remind myself that if Winchester made 580,000+ M70s, they also made 580,000+ boxes to put them in.  While I’m sure the attrition rate of the boxes was much higher than that of the guns, there still must be many thousands of “orphan” original boxes lying around in basements and attics just waiting to be renumbered or relabeled to a “new” gun.

So, absent compelling evidence of originality, I tend to assign value based on the gun alone.  In this case, an all original 98% 257 ROBERTS standard rifle from 1952 is maybe $2600 to $2900 (retail) gun based on what I’ve seen.  If it is genuinely in as-new condition, with no evidence of firing outside the factory, then somebody might go higher.  How much higher depends on the prospective buyer… I’ve certainly seen “mint” 257 ROBERTS standard rifles go for $4000 in those “crazy” auctions, but wouldn’t recommend it if there’s any thought about needing to get your money back on resale anytime in the near future.

Just my take…  Let us know how it turns out.  Smile

Lou

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WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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November 19, 2020
6:57 pm
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Well, we shall see what happens today.  I am going over there to strike a deal for the model 70 and a Colt SAA.

I’ll keep you guys posted.

November 21, 2020
1:50 am
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How did it go, Manuel?

 

Mike

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November 21, 2020
4:38 am
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TXGunNut said
How did it go, Manuel?

 

Mike  

Still negotiating.  But I think they will both be in mybsafe next week!  I’ll have pictures

December 1, 2020
10:27 pm
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There were a few of you who were interested in my quest.  I came home with Colt SAA issued to the NY Militia and instead of the roberts came home with a deluxe model 71 with 24″ barrel and bolt peep sight.  I may lose out on the roberts to a guy who has waaaaaaay more money then me!

December 1, 2020
11:08 pm
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Manuel said
There were a few of you who were interested in my quest.  I came home with Colt SAA issued to the NY Militia and instead of the roberts came home with a deluxe model 71 with 24″ barrel and bolt peep sight.  I may lose out on the roberts to a guy who has waaaaaaay more money then me!  

The Roberts is MORE than a military issue SAA?  That blows me away.

December 1, 2020
11:15 pm
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A Winchester and colt came home with you so it sounds like a good ending!

December 2, 2020
1:44 am
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clarence said

The Roberts is MORE than a military issue SAA?  That blows me away.  

No unfortunately there is a third party involved with the roberts….so more negotiations are needed…..but like Bill said….I came home with a Colt and a Winchester

December 2, 2020
2:37 am
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Please tell me more about the Model 71 Special …

Bert

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December 2, 2020
2:56 am
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S

Manuel said
There were a few of you who were interested in my quest.  I came home with Colt SAA issued to the NY Militia and instead of the roberts came home with a deluxe model 71 with 24″ barrel and bolt peep sight.  I may lose out on the roberts to a guy who has waaaaaaay more money then me!  

Sounds like you came home with the right guns. I agree with Bert, enquiring minds want to know more about your 71.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
December 2, 2020
4:06 am
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20201201_174218.jpgImage Enlarger Not the best picture but there she is.  Serial #25859 24″ barrel, bolt peep sight. Factory sling swivels.  Unfortunate the sling is not original.  Bore nice and shiny with sharp rifling. 

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