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Pre - 64 M70 in 9.3x64 Brenneke?
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September 26, 2020 - 3:20 pm
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For my first post on this forum I would like to introduce myself & ask a question…..

 

Mid 30’s man from Texas interested in all things outdoor & firearm related; I find myself on this forum after posting in another thread for a friend seeking information on a pre-64 Winchester 70.

 

Question – Which forum area would be the appropriate place to post the pictures of a pre-64 Winchester 70 in an odd caliber that I need help finding information on?

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September 26, 2020 - 4:39 pm
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https://i.imgur.com/I5vYo74.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.imgur.com/3mK9mPh.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.imgur.com/JEQf4hG.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.imgur.com/1DV3sok.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.imgur.com/fLqQkBp.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.imgur.com/GtZwXSP.jpgImage Enlarger

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September 26, 2020 - 5:05 pm
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I moved your post to the “Winchester Rifles” forum.  

Can you post a clear picture of the factory roll marking on the barrel, to include the caliber marking?

Bert

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High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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September 28, 2020 - 12:38 pm
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Thanks Bert H.

 

I signed up for this site and I have been enjoying it…. didn’t mean for my full email address to end up as my user name, I’m active in other forums so I’m not sure how that happened but again thanks for moving this post into the right place.

 

Here is the picture of the stampings

https://i.imgur.com/UGMLkbh.jpgImage Enlarger

 

Someone suggested that next time I have this rifle in my presence that it would help if I took the stock off and took pictures of the stamp marks on the underside of the barrel and receiver; I’ll do that next time I’m at my friends how and update the thread.

Again, thanks for any help that can be offered in figuring out the origins/legitimacy of this rifle as myself and the owner are quite curious.

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September 28, 2020 - 2:10 pm
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Hopefully Lou or Steve will weigh in soon with their expertise concerning this rifle.

I can update (change) your user name to something other than your email address if you would like to do that. Send me a PM with your desired user ID (name).

Bert

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September 28, 2020 - 2:29 pm
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Thanks Bert… PM Sent

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September 28, 2020 - 2:31 pm
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Done…

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September 28, 2020 - 7:30 pm
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Anyone on the forum care to shed some light on this rifle?

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September 28, 2020 - 7:45 pm
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deewayne2003 said
Anyone on the forum care to shed some light on this rifle?  

I am sure that Lou and possibly Steve will offer some words of wisdom when they get the time to review this topic.  

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September 28, 2020 - 9:21 pm
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Interesting rifle.  First, the rear site is not correct. Is there a mark on top of the barrel at the place at which the elevator for the rear sight would have been?  From the picture the barrel blue does not appear to be factory.  The M/M stamp does look suspect.  The few that I have seen are much sharper.  I hope this helps. I agree that the under barrel markings would be of interest.

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September 28, 2020 - 9:32 pm
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Hi deewayne-

I’d already been shown your photos from another private contact.  This is what I wrote to him yesterday (off this forum):

“It’s an interesting and confusing rifle.  The barrel stamp, while not the clearest photo, does indeed look like a Winchester Style 3A (or a very good imitation).  The front ramp (which really cannot be seen) looks like it could be an integral #2.  So maybe (???) a factory barrel…  

But the bolt release button is the fancy checkered type used by custom builders like Len Brownell, Al Biesen, etc.  I’ve never seen anything like that from the factory.  The barrel is either stainless or reblued matte.  A photo of the muzzle face would tell the difference.  The bottom metal is finished similar to the barrel, so I suspect the whole barreled action was probably refinished, maybe at the time of the custom work?   The stock has probably been refinished, or at least improved with extra finish (???).  The leather covered pad (which Winchester would certainly do on order) looks old.

So all-in-all it’s confusing.  I cannot readily imagine a custom maker choosing to use a “fake” Winchester marked barrel on a rifle they were building for somebody.  OTOH if the intent was to create a “fake” uncataloged pre-64 M70 starting from a 30-06 barrel, then why add the custom bolt release and not try to replicate the blue finish on barrel and bottom metal?  I’m curious whether the bottom of the barrel is marked “1906”???  If the gun is an “honest” rebore/rechamber of a factory barrel, then the original caliber stamp underneath wouldn’t need to be changed, only the exposed one.  Curious…”

As suggested here, some things that might help are: knowing whether the muzzle face is “in the white” because the matte stainless barrels had to be iron plated before bluing and the muzzle face is always bare stainless; seeing the highest possible resolution closeup of the exposed roll markings, especially the regular roll marking as opposed to the caliber stamp; and knowing what’s stamped under the chamber on the barrel.  A POSSIBILITY here (not saying anything definitive) is that the rifle was converted from 30-06 to 9.3X64 M/M by a skilled custom gunsmith who also added the improved bolt release.  Since such a conversion would normally not have been intended to create a “fake”, the under chamber caliber designation “1906” might still be there.  

Let us know what you discover!!!

Lou

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October 1, 2020 - 6:24 pm
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Gentlemen, 

Thank you very much for the information; I too am interested to see what stampings are underneath the wood line and will report back as soon as I can take those pictures.

 

Until then I did find these 2 extra pics of the barrel stamps if these help….

https://i.imgur.com/fMPdUoS.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.imgur.com/Gj4fIeA.jpgImage Enlarger

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October 1, 2020 - 8:13 pm
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The M/M portion, in my humble opinion appears to have been altered in some way.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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October 1, 2020 - 8:26 pm
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Maverick said
The M/M portion, in my humble opinion appears to have been altered in some way.

Sincerely,

Maverick  

Was just going to comment that it looks like something was previously going on under that entire caliber stamp.

“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”

President Harry S. Truman

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October 1, 2020 - 11:34 pm
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I find the M/M stamping particularly suspect.  In addition, there for sure, appears to be something going on under the M/M stamping.

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