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RickC said
Good question Steve. Probably not very many. Sling ring is the correct, technical, & proper term but, sellers will want to use saddle instead of sling because it sounds more historical & western. It’s sling to me.
Rick – I can picture myself going to a gun show and asking a dealer if I can pick up his, “sling ring carbine” laying on his table. I can imagine him trying to suppress a smirk as he thinks to himself that I must be, “hot off the boat” to collecting. Probably joke about me with his table mates after I depart. He won’t know that the joke is on him and my use of that term reflects very advanced and refined knowledge 
I think you have a up hill battle. Its just like the brass vs. gun metal.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
steve004 said
Rick – I can picture myself going to a gun show and asking a dealer if I can pick up his, “sling ring carbine” laying on his table. I can imagine him trying to suppress a smirk as he thinks to himself that I must be, “hot off the boat” to collecting. Probably joke about me with his table mates after I depart. He won’t know that the joke is on him and my use of that term reflects very advanced and refined knowledge
Lol exactly Steve. And I know you have been using the proper terminology and respect that. A Pioneer in that regard.
J B said
I am always helping others learn what the ring is actually for. I use this picture, and once they see the visual, they get it.To me, the notion the ring was to tie the gun to the saddle is illogical. It would render the gun useless in a situation where it was urgently needed as one whoukd have to stop and untie it.
60 yrs ago Dixie & S&S were selling these swivels (without the sling) for next to nothing–I bought one when I was in HS, along with a carbine boot, though I sold them decades ago–these & a hundred other Indian Wars period accoutrements, like McKeever cartridge boxes, which I also bought several of. Note that what helped make the sling functional was the long bar the ring was attached to.
1873man said
I think you have a up hill battle. Its just like the brass vs. gun metal.Bob
Generally futile to argue with the ignorant about anything, unless you run into someone who seems intelligent enough to be receptive to learning something new (to them).
clarence said
Generally futile to argue with the ignorant about anything, unless you run into someone who seems intelligent enough to be receptive to learning something new (to them).
So true Clarence.
I don’t disagree but I bet the ring was used by someone to tie the gun to them, horse, scabbard, wagon or saddle at some time or another. Any educated collector knows the difference between collector terms and the PC terms and using either does not make them ignorant or any smarter. If this was a military gun I would be more inclined to call it a sling ring carbine.
Receiver ring would’ve covered everything imo & done it for me.
A young collector is more apt to adopt the new term Sling ring rather than a old time collector who’s memory is use to calling it saddle ring. I will probably still call it a saddle ring cause that is what I’ve always called it. Its just like a old timer going from a flip phone to a smart phone. Change is harder the older you are.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Chuck said
I don’t disagree but I bet the ring was used by someone to tie the gun to them, horse, scabbard, wagon or saddle at some time or another. Any educated collector knows the difference between collector terms and the PC terms and using either does not make them ignorant or any smarter. If this was a military gun I would be more inclined to call it a sling ring carbine.
Chuck, I’m glad you said something! Thanks for the common sense. T/R
1873man said
A young collector is more apt to adopt the new term Sling ring rather than a old time collector who’s memory is use to calling it saddle ring. I will probably still call it a saddle ring cause that is what I’ve always called it. Its just like a old timer going from a flip phone to a smart phone. Change is harder the older you are.Bob
Can’t argue with that Bob. Sounds right to me. At least sling & saddle start with an S so Steve & I can keep the SRC terminology alive!! ?
Chuck said
I don’t disagree but I bet the ring was used by someone to tie the gun to them, horse, scabbard, wagon or saddle at some time or another.
Rarely, is what I think. Otherwise, there’d be photos, written records, or other evidence, of such use. And even movies, because when the first films were made in the early 1900s, many of them Westerns, real cowboys were still riding the range. What do early Westerns, like The Great Train Robbery of 1903 show? Long guns carried in saddle scabbards of some kind.
And what about all those who carried rifles on horseback rather than carbines? If having the ring provided any important advantage, wouldn’t most riders have carried carbines instead?
I wonder why Winchester (and other manufacturers) but these on their carbines? I would love to hear the discussion back at Winchester. It really does beg the question – what was their purpose, or how often were they actually used for anything? I think I’ve seen every episode of The Rifleman and I never saw Lucas McCain use his ring for anything. Seems to me that for most hunters, they were a nuisance as they rattled. Winchester, Marlin, Savage, Whitney-Kennedy, Burgess – all these lever actions carbines with sling rings. Not to mention, Colt slide actions and even some Remington slide actions had sling rings. People wanted these? Picture all those young inquiring young boys getting to handle their Dad’s new carbine and flicking the ring back and forth: “Dad, what’s this for?” What does Dad say???
steve004 said
I wonder why Winchester (and other manufacturers) but these on their carbines? I would love to hear the discussion back at Winchester. It really does beg the question – what was their purpose, or how often were they actually used for anything? I think I’ve seen every episode of The Rifleman and I never saw Lucas McCain use his ring for anything. Seems to me that for most hunters, they were a nuisance as they rattled. Winchester, Marlin, Savage, Whitney-Kennedy, Burgess – all these lever actions carbines with sling rings. Not to mention, Colt slide actions and even some Remington slide actions had sling rings. People wanted these? Picture all those young inquiring young boys getting to handle their Dad’s new carbine and flicking the ring back and forth: “Dad, what’s this for?” What does Dad say???
“Son, they’re just like the tail fins on my 1960 Plymouth–all for show.” Never underestimate the influence of looks alone on what people choose to buy–even when the “looks” compromise practicality! But in the case of the SRC, there’s also the long tradition of slings used by cavalry troopers, even if that was irrelevant to the way they were carried by civilians.
clarence said
“Son, they’re just like the tail fins on my 1960 Plymouth–all for show.” Never underestimate the influence of looks alone on what people choose to buy–even when the “looks” compromise practicality! But in the case of the SRC, there’s also the long tradition of slings used by cavalry troopers, even if that was irrelevant to the way they were carried by civilians.
Great points Steve and Clarence.
RickC
clarence said
Chuck said
I don’t disagree but I bet the ring was used by someone to tie the gun to them, horse, scabbard, wagon or saddle at some time or another.Rarely, is what I think. Otherwise, there’d be photos, written records, or other evidence, of such use. And even movies, because when the first films were made in the early 1900s, many of them Westerns, real cowboys were still riding the range. What do early Westerns, like The Great Train Robbery of 1903 show? Long guns carried in saddle scabbards of some kind.
And what about all those who carried rifles on horseback rather than carbines? If having the ring provided any important advantage, wouldn’t most riders have carried carbines instead?
Winchester could have just copied the Civil War carbines. No one should believe what they see in old movies. I see rifles in scabbards in the movies. Too long for the scabbard and flopping around so bad that they would have fallen out quickly or beat the horse and rider up. I believe any smart person would have carried a carbine or a longer scabbard.
Early cartridge belts came set up to hold a sword and a rifle. No one can prove why the Winchesters had these rings or how the saddle ring term got started. It would be interesting to have proof.
Way before rings appeared on firearms they were manufactured on swords, knifes and scabbards. So maybe we need to call them what the sword makers called them.
Chuck said
No one can prove why the Winchesters had these rings or how the saddle ring term got started.
One fact is indisputable–the name the company chose to call them…which wasn’t saddle ring.
Again, I’m sure Winchester had discussions, likely at many points, about the, “rings.” This would include when they decided to no longer offer them as a standard carbine feature, and later, when they were no longer offered as an option. I would love to read transcripts of all those discussions. Surely there would have been some discussion of what their purpose was thought to be.
steve004 said
Surely there would have been some discussion of what their purpose was thought to be.
Well, doesn’t the name itself make that clear? What is the purpose of a sling ring if not to attach to a sling? A sling–not a saddle.
But if that was the original purpose, in later yrs it became secondary to a completely different purpose–attracting buyers who just liked the look of it, even if they had no intention in the world of using it for any practical purpose.
clarence said
Well, doesn’t the name itself make that clear? What is the purpose of a sling ring if not to attach to a sling? A sling–not a saddle.
But if that was the original purpose, in later yrs it became secondary to a completely different purpose–attracting buyers who just liked the look of it, even if they had no intention in the world of using it for any practical purpose.
And we have catalog illustrations of slings attached to the ring? My memory is Winchester slings were attached to, “screw eyes.” Seems to me, the Winchester attachments were designed to fit the eyelets, not the ring.
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