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On the Hunt for a pre-64 M70, any advice, recommendations?
April 15, 2021
12:57 am
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I kind of touched on this subject (unintentionally) in an unrelated thread (sorry Capt Rick) and received some info and advice. Seems like there’s good discussion to be had on the subject. 

I been interested in finding a fine M70 for some time now but really don’t feel like I process the knowledge to obtain the quality M7 that I want. 

So thought I would start another thread. I’m looking for a pre-64 M70 100% correct and in 95+% condition. I’m leaning towards a 30-06. 

I’m going to try to copy some of the posts from the other thread here as there’s some very GOOD information shared and i feel others in addition to myself my benefit from it.

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Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

April 15, 2021
1:11 am
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Pick up a ’40s or ’50s Win. catalog, or read descriptions of 70s in Stoegers catalogs of the same period.  Seriously, finding a clean original 70 is not a hard row to hoe, if you steer clear of rare calibers & variations.  By the ’60s, quality was already declining.

April 15, 2021
1:19 am
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Louis Luttrell said
I hate contributing to the hijacking pf Captain Rick’s post, but my knowledge of M70s ends with 1964.  Maybe iskra (or some others) know something that will help the OP.  John (iskra) knows quite a lot about the later rifles. Laugh

Kevin-

I know from your prior WACA posts that you’re a guy who collects QUALITY stuff (and does his homework)…  Kudos!!!

IMHO…  The one pre-64 M70 to have if you’re having only one (further apologies, this time to the old Schaefer beer commercials, i.e. “the one beer to have when you’re having more than one”…) would be a pre-war standard grade rifle in 30 GOV’T’06. I’m so fond of these that I have three, a type I-1, I-2 and I-3.  I still don’t have a type I-4 (in 30 GOV’T’06) b/c I so far haven’t yet found the right one at the right time.  I take that back… Wink I have a type I-4 in that chambering but it’s an 80-90% gun, not a museum piece…

I think you’d want all original finishes, no aftermarket alterations, high condition.  Best of the best would be a type I-1 (squared magazine release button, Carbonum blued receiver, no pin in bolt sleeve), since this is the version depicted in the introductory M70 brochure (get that brochure too!!!).  S/N would be likely be below 5000.  These turn up occasionally, but as you said you need to know what you’re looking at.  Too many “restored” guns out there!!!   The good ones are out there, but if you’re uncertain then by all means get some “help”!!! Expect to pay about $2800 for a pre-war ’06 standard if it’s legit, your kind of condition, and in the hands of a dealer…

If you are going to shoot it and need a scope, just get a Stith “Install-It-Yourself” or “Quick-Easy-Detachable” (QED) scope mount.  I disagree (a little) with Clarence, in that I don’t think that it was a blunder for Winchester to not D&T the receiver bridge in 1936-37.  Most consumers of the day did not trust the rickety/unreliable/expensive telescopic sights available at the time, so why cater to the minority???  True that by the early 1940s, scopes had gained popularity and maybe Winchester was not “forward thinking” enough to D&T the bridge before 1946…  But they did respond to market demand (just maybe a little slow)…

Caveats aside, please do join the M70 addict bunch!!!  Once you’ve had one, you’ll want another…. Wink

Type-I-1.jpgImage Enlarger

Best,

Lou  

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Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

April 15, 2021
1:21 am
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clarence said
Pick up a ’40s or ’50s Win. catalog, or read descriptions of 70s in Stoegers catalogs of the same period.  Seriously, finding a clean original 70 is not a hard row to hoe, if you steer clear of rare calibers & variations.  By the ’60s, quality was already declining.  

 

Thanks clarence, I’ve been doing some reading. Thanks for the references. 

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Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

April 15, 2021
2:12 am
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Kevin Jones said

 

Thanks clarence, I’ve been doing some reading. Thanks for the references.   

Here’s another:  Gun Digest Treasury, 5th Ed., Kam Nasser’s piece on 70s, the first I ever saw.

  https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30395252356&cm_sp=Searchmod-_-NullResults-_-BDP

Not quite the equivalent of Roger Rule’s $300 book, but for $3.50, it’s fair to make some allowances.

(By the way, these GD “Treasury”s (best articles of the previous few yrs) are great resources; naturally GD has stopped publishing them.)

April 15, 2021
2:18 am
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Hi Kevin-

Here’s a couple pretty good ones that sold tonite (listed today).  Dave Morris provides good photos and generally knows what he’s talking about…  I save many of the photos of his listing for my “survey”…

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles-model-70-pre-64/pre-war-pre-64-winchester-model-70-30-gov-39-t-39-06-excellent-original.cfm?gun_id=101637062

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles-model-70-pre-64/pre-64-winchester-model-70-transition-era-30-06-outstanding-scarce-.cfm?gun_id=101637070

Of the two, the transition gun is less common, can mount a scope (Clarence would be proud!!! Laugh), and was cheaper.  The pre-war is more the classic M70. 

They’re out there…  

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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April 15, 2021
2:42 am
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Kevin-

Here’s a couple pretty good ones that sold tonite (listed today).  Dave Morris provides good photos and generally knows what he’s talking about…  I save many of the photos of his listing for my “survey”…

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles-model-70-pre-64/pre-war-pre-64-winchester-model-70-30-gov-39-t-39-06-excellent-original.cfm?gun_id=101637062

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles-model-70-pre-64/pre-64-winchester-model-70-transition-era-30-06-outstanding-scarce-.cfm?gun_id=101637070

Of the two, the transition gun is less common, can mount a scope (Clarence would be proud!!! Laugh), and was cheaper.  The pre-war is more the classic M70. 

They’re out there…  

Lou  

“Pretty good,” is putting it mildly.  Anybody looking for a 70 to shoot, maybe even (gasp!) hunt with, these aren’t what you’re looking for…unless you’re looking for a “safe queen.”

April 15, 2021
2:46 am
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Kevin-

Here’s a couple pretty good ones that sold tonite (listed today).  Dave Morris provides good photos and generally knows what he’s talking about…  I save many of the photos of his listing for my “survey”…

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles-model-70-pre-64/pre-war-pre-64-winchester-model-70-30-gov-39-t-39-06-excellent-original.cfm?gun_id=101637062

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles-model-70-pre-64/pre-64-winchester-model-70-transition-era-30-06-outstanding-scarce-.cfm?gun_id=101637070

Of the two, the transition gun is less common, can mount a scope (Clarence would be proud!!! Laugh), and was cheaper.  The pre-war is more the classic M70. 

They’re out there…  

Lou  

Thanks Lou, both beautiful M70s and just what I’m looking for. Does Dave Morris get new inventory in very often? I’m going to keep my eye on his site. 

Thanks for your help! 

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Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

April 15, 2021
3:04 am
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Good luck, Kevin. I share your interest and desire and even your preference in chambering but in spite of reading almost every post on the subject in this forum I am reluctant to add a pre-64 Model 70 to my collection. So many that I like turn out to be not original and I quite honestly don’t need another shooter. I’ve enjoyed Louis’ thoughtful and detailed posts on the subject, thanks to him and other helpful souls around here I’ll some day be brave and smart enough to add a nice M70 to my stable. 

Keep us posted on your quest.

 

Mike

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April 15, 2021
3:23 am
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Hi Kevin-

Dave Morris is one of the more knowledgeable dealers in M70s around these days.  Not the only one for sure, but he does know the guns and tends not to lie about them.  He seems to have developed quite a following on GI (kind of like Austin and Chayns have on GB) and his good guns often don’t last very long.  Those two were listed about an hour before I posted them as examples and both had already sold despite the (inflated) prices.

You could e-mail him at akmg133@gmail.com and let him know what you’re interested in.  Might pay off (???)…  No guarantees when the right gun might turn up, since they aren’t making any more and you might find the right one tomorrow or a year from now…  

Be patient (as you have been to date) and the right one will present itself eventually.  These aren’t “rare” by Winchester collectors’ standards.  Just hard to find one that hasn’t been eff’ed with… Confused

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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April 15, 2021
3:43 am
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Louis Luttrell said

You could e-mail him at akmg133@gmail.com and let him know what you’re interested in.  Might pay off (???)…  No guarantees when the right gun might turn up, since they aren’t making any more and you might find the right one tomorrow or a year from now…  

 

You could also put in a “pre-64 Model 70” saved-search on GB, but (be prepared) you’ll be deluged with results. 

April 15, 2021
5:29 am
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Kevin-

Dave Morris is one of the more knowledgeable dealers in M70s around these days.  Not the only one for sure, but he does know the guns and tends not to lie about them.  He seems to have developed quite a following on GI (kind of like Austin and Chayns have on GB) and his good guns often don’t last very long.  Those two were listed about an hour before I posted them as examples and both had already sold despite the (inflated) prices.

You could e-mail him at akmg133@gmail.com and let him know what you’re interested in.  Might pay off (???)…  No guarantees when the right gun might turn up, since they aren’t making any more and you might find the right one tomorrow or a year from now…  

Be patient (as you have been to date) and the right one will present itself eventually.  These aren’t “rare” by Winchester collectors’ standards.  Just hard to find one that hasn’t been eff’ed with… Confused

Lou  

Thanks Louis, I sent Dave an e-mail and he’s already replied back. Looks promising. 

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April 15, 2021
12:57 pm
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Great thread.

April 15, 2021
4:53 pm
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Just keep looking and one will pop up!   Both my model 70’s walked into a local gun store.  Now my 30-06 featherweight is by no means in the collector condition.  But it is still a nice 80% gun i use to hunt.  Came with a leupold VXII scope…..$900 bucks out the door.   

My pre64 375 H&H also came from the same shop.  I bought this one because 1.  It was in great condition….id’ say 90% plus 2.  My best friend and I plan to go to Africa when we both turn 50.  This one was a little more pricey at $2,700.    You’ll find one.

April 15, 2021
5:40 pm
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Perry County Firearms who sell on Guns International always seem to sell a lot of pre 64 model 70’s.

Al

April 15, 2021
7:16 pm
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Manuel said
Just keep looking and one will pop up!   Both my model 70’s walked into a local gun store.  Now my 30-06 featherweight is by no means in the collector condition.  But it is still a nice 80% gun i use to hunt.  Came with a leupold VXII scope…..$900 bucks out the door.   

My pre64 375 H&H also came from the same shop.  I bought this one because 1.  It was in great condition….id’ say 90% plus 2.  My best friend and I plan to go to Africa when we both turn 50.  This one was a little more pricey at $2,700.    You’ll find one.  

That’s some 50th birthday present. 

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April 15, 2021
7:54 pm
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Kevin Jones said

That’s some 50th birthday present.   

Hhaha…..yes it is.  We’ve been buddies since we were 12.  We’re both 40 now and figure that would be a cool trip to take when we hit that milestone!Cool

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