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November 7, 2015
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In my opinion the seller may not know if the item is original and the only honest answer is “I don’t know”. If he won’t allow a reasonable inspection period and/or additional pics it may be advisable to look elsewhere. There are apparently plenty of buyers who aren’t so discriminating. One thing to understand is that it costs a minimum of several thousand dollars to have your day in court. Winning isn’t everything, it’s expensive and stressful for the principals.
Mike
January 20, 2023
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An old Arab curse: “May you have a lawsuit and be in the right.”
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 19, 2006
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Zebulon said
An old Arab curse: “May you have a lawsuit and be in the right.”
Hadn’t heard that one before.
November 7, 2015
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Zebulon said
An old Arab curse: “May you have a lawsuit and be in the right.”
I was sued by a con artist. My attorney was afraid of plaintiff’s attorney. My attorney got paid even though he lied to me. Plaintiff’s attorney never got paid, eventually figured out she was being lied to. Case went away. Hard to call that a win.
Mike
November 19, 2006
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TXGunNut said
Zebulon said
An old Arab curse: “May you have a lawsuit and be in the right.”
I was sued by a con artist. My attorney was afraid of plaintiff’s attorney. My attorney got paid even though he lied to me. Plaintiff’s attorney never got paid, eventually figured out she was being lied to. Case went away. Hard to call that a win.
Mike
Mike –
Your post prompted me to reflect that in life, when confronted with certain problems, a person often receives advice from others. Such as, “you should see an attorney” or, “you should see a doctor,” or, “you should call a repairman.” This advice is usually appropriate. The problem, is the results can vary. Considerably.
January 20, 2023
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steve004 said
TXGunNut said
Zebulon said
An old Arab curse: “May you have a lawsuit and be in the right.”
I was sued by a con artist. My attorney was afraid of plaintiff’s attorney. My attorney got paid even though he lied to me. Plaintiff’s attorney never got paid, eventually figured out she was being lied to. Case went away. Hard to call that a win.
Mike
Mike –
Your post prompted me to reflect that in life, when confronted with certain problems, a person often receives advice from others. Such as, “you should see an attorney” or, “you should see a doctor,” or, “you should call a repairman.” This advice is usually appropriate. The problem, is the results can vary. Considerably.
Professional services are not fungible. Not all gunsmiths (or surgeons or attorneys or clergymen, et al.) are equally skilled or experienced. Sometimes they are very good at one thing and not at another. Some are lazy or careless or unscrupulous and need not to be in their profession.
That is equally true of the skilled trades.
The only way I know to find a good and suitable attorney is by asking a lot of people whose intelligence and judgement you trust to name a lawyer they have used for the same category of service you need.
In Texas, the Bar offers specialty certifications that are useful, although there are attorneys known to be excellent in a field who don’t bother pursuing certification. However, certified specialization does offer the assurance of considerable knowledge and some experience in a particular area of the law.
Although proof of knowledge and experience does not perfectly measure the peculiar sets of skills of trial or appellate litigators.
Another indication to consider is whether an attorney has been rated by Martindale Hubbell, publisher of a comprehensive legal directory that issues ratings based on peer reviews (other lawyers and judges who have had experience with the attorney under consideration) it undertakes. The ratings are CV, BV, and AV. At one time only about 25% of the bar was MH-rated. I don’t know what it is now. The “V” meant “very high ethics” — won’t lie,cheat or steal. Without the V, the other rating — competence – wasn’t available.
To sum up, you need to listen to the street people. Just as in the illicit market for cocaine and heroin, when buying legal services you need to “Know Your Dealer.”
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
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Agreed, Bill. You know more of this story than I’ll post here. My point is that we should not rely on attorneys or the courts to sort out our missteps in the gun collecting world. Do your homework, know what to look for and know what you’re looking at. If you’re looking for legal remedies you’ve already made a costly mistake.
Mike
January 20, 2023
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My man, you have spoke the truth. “Going to the law” is something you shouldn’t do unless your back is truly to the wall.
Although ours is a Winchester site, I have yet to meet a Member who doesn’t relish a fine Savage Model 1899. A rare one is the little 99-T. I bought one online represented as being in original condition and it was anything but. I swallowed my anger, posted an “F” and went on. It would have been to sue the wind.
Proposing to throw good money after bad, I had it disassembled and some of the parts polished to prepare them for case hardening. A fellow who was going to recut the faded stamps and marks for me never could get the barrel off.
I had the stock and bag of parts in a gun case outside the safe, for some reason. When we were having a lot of work done on the house years ago, it disappeared.
All I have left is the bare receiver and still-attached barrel, a separate bare polished lever and buttplate. The stock and all the lockwork is gone. I only wish I could have seen the thief’s expression when he unzipped the case.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 19, 2006
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Zebulon said
My man, you have spoke the truth. “Going to the law” is something you shouldn’t do unless your back is truly to the wall.
Although ours is a Winchester site, I have yet to meet a Member who doesn’t relish a fine Savage Model 1899. A rare one is the little 99-T. I bought one online represented as being in original condition and it was anything but. I swallowed my anger, posted an “F” and went on. It would have been to sue the wind.
Proposing to throw good money after bad, I had it disassembled and some of the parts polished to prepare them for case hardening. A fellow who was going to recut the faded stamps and marks for me never could get the barrel off.
I had the stock and bag of parts in a gun case outside the safe, for some reason. When we were having a lot of work done on the house years ago, it disappeared.
All I have left is the bare receiver and still-attached barrel, a separate bare polished lever and buttplate. The stock and all the lockwork is gone. I only wish I could have seen the thief’s expression when he unzipped the case.
Bill –
Personally, I surely would not debate this statement:
I have yet to meet a Member who doesn’t relish a fine Savage Model 1899.
Collecting is generally fun and enjoyable. But when experiences like this come along, it leaves quite the sour taste. In my experience, that taste lingers for a very long time.
I do wonder what the thief did with his stolen prize
January 20, 2023
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Good morning, Steve. Mr. sticky-fingers undoubtedly put them in the landfill.
I like to think of him as the gone-bad cousin of Inspector Clouseau.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
September 22, 2011
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steve004 said
Zebulon said
My man, you have spoke the truth. “Going to the law” is something you shouldn’t do unless your back is truly to the wall.
Although ours is a Winchester site, I have yet to meet a Member who doesn’t relish a fine Savage Model 1899. A rare one is the little 99-T. I bought one online represented as being in original condition and it was anything but. I swallowed my anger, posted an “F” and went on. It would have been to sue the wind.
Proposing to throw good money after bad, I had it disassembled and some of the parts polished to prepare them for case hardening. A fellow who was going to recut the faded stamps and marks for me never could get the barrel off.
I had the stock and bag of parts in a gun case outside the safe, for some reason. When we were having a lot of work done on the house years ago, it disappeared.
All I have left is the bare receiver and still-attached barrel, a separate bare polished lever and buttplate. The stock and all the lockwork is gone. I only wish I could have seen the thief’s expression when he unzipped the case.
Bill –
Personally, I surely would not debate this statement:
I have yet to meet a Member who doesn’t relish a fine Savage Model 1899.
Collecting is generally fun and enjoyable. But when experiences like this come along, it leaves quite the sour taste. In my experience, that taste lingers for a very long time.
I do wonder what the thief did with his stolen prize
In fact, I wish there was a subsection of this forum devoted to the Savage 1899 since there is no longer a forum devoted to the Savage 1899 as the savageshootersforum is now defunct.
August 27, 2014
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Try the Savage Collectors Forum on the 24 HourCampfire Site. Very knowledgeable members there
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
August 4, 2023
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I like reading threads like this, it’s interesting, and I always learn something. I can’t add anything about Winchester Model 70’s since my knowledge base is very limited, so most of my posts are questions. It can be said that I know just enough to get myself in trouble. That said, I do know enough not to buy something rare, often faked, and very expensive without an experts opinion. If the seller isn’t accommodating that is a huge red flag in itself. Any collecting I do is not advanced. I stay away from everything I feel has a chance of being faked. A nice example of an standard rifle in the caliber I want, at a good price is a safe bet. Often these type of sales where the price is good a decision needs to be made sooner rather than later, or you could miss out. That is where some general knowledge is important. I despise the cheat, but I have little sympathy for the guy that has so much money that he’s not careful what he’s buying. I know I’ve made a few small mistakes here and there, and maybe overpaid a little sometimes, but I bought what I did because I liked it, and wanted it, and in the end I’m happy.
December 9, 2002
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mrcvs said,
In fact, I wish there was a subsection of this forum devoted to the Savage 1899 since there is no longer a forum devoted to the Savage 1899 as the savageshootersforum is now defunct.
Tedk said
Try the Savage Collectors Forum on the 24 HourCampfire Site. Very knowledgeable members there
I’m in agreement with TedK, on this as the Savage Rifles section on the 24 hour campfire, is where the very well known and knowledgeable Savage Collectors hang out. They gather once a year at an annual, “Savage Fest”, get together and swap and sell, and do a show and tell display of all things Savage.
Most are well known in the Collector World.
Anthony
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