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I had not intended to add anything to the discussion of right or wrong selling methods. Since Lou’s post mentioned helping fellow WACA members in purchasing collectable rifles I thought that I would add that I believe that one of the induvial was me so I will continue the story.
Lou knew that I was looking for a Winchester Model 70 pre 64 Super Grade featherweight 30-06 SPRG. He called me letting me know of a person that had one for sale. Lou said that he had one and thought someone else would enjoy owning one. He did not say what the owner was asking, or did he tell the owner what I might pay. I called the owner, being on level ground we started negotiating. He (the owner) was asking $500 more than I wanted to pay but where do you find another Winchester Model 70 Super Grade Featherweight, so I said lets go for it. I could have probably waited and watched for one a little less expensive, but I do not have that much time. Lou was an outstanding help in determining if things were right on the rifle. Thanks Lou.
Recently I located a Winchester Model 70 Super Grade Featherweight 308 caliber through another Model 70 collector. I purchased the rifle with help from Lou and Steve (seewin) determining if it was legit. Thanks to both of these guys for their assistance.
I now have 3 of (already had the 243 which Lou helped me get the correct floorplate) the 4 Winchester Model 70 Super Grade Featherweight rifles that were made between 1955 and 1959. I now need the 270 WCF to complete the group. If anyone has an extra 270 let me know.
Here is the list compiled by Roger Rule.
(1) 308 Win (101) made
(2) 270 W,C.F, (248)
(3) 243 Win (260)
(4) 30-06 (321)
I could not have gotten this far on my collection if it were not for the outstanding help of Lou Luttrell and Steve Emmert. Thanks again guys.
Dick
November 5, 2014
Offline
Hi Dick-
I’m glad that Steve and I could help a fellow WACA member with their search!!! Steve is my go-to guy on the obscure M70 stuff that nobody else knows!!! HIS word is M70 Gospel…
That ’06 SG FWT is a NICE gun and I figure the owner, who had gotten it from his Godparents (along with some other guns he planned to keep), was happy to see it go to a collector and not a “dealer” (at least that’s what he told me before the sale ever happened).
Good Luck with finding the 270 WIN SG FWT… They are out there!!! I don’t have a line on a legit one at present except for the one that was “promised” to somebody else before I knew about it. Maybe you should contact the current collector/owner just in case that deal falls through…
Good Luck!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Win61 said I could have probably waited and watched for one a little less expensive, but I do not have that much time.
I know what you mean! Which is why I never buy green bananas.
Louis Luttrell said Steve is my go-to guy on the obscure M70 stuff that nobody else knows!!! HIS word is M70 Gospel…
Ditto on 52s. Most 70s are too rich for my blood, but I can dabble in the lesser 52s.
I, too, have reason to admire and be grateful to Steve, whom I had the pleasure of finally meeting at the Cody show in July.
From the production numbers according to Rule, quoted supra, I can now understand why I’ve never even seen a Super Grade Featherweight. Attempting to collect them is a mighty stately contract!
Because these things were pricey when they were available new and it’s common knowledge that higher grade guns usually get better care, is condition even a factor in pricing Super Grade Featherweights?
For example, if one is lucky and persistent enough to find one of the only 108 specimens ever chambered in 308 WCF still in existence and available for sale, after concluding it’s not faked, does the lack of complete originality, e.g. a professional refinish, materially affect the price, given the rarity of the gun and of the actual opportunity to buy one?
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Update: I discussed this with Ward’s Auctions recently, and here is WHY the bids were so much higher in the previous auction than in this auction. They told me that any item with a reserve had an asterisk. The computer will “sell” an item when the auction ends within 5% of the reserve. As Ward’s’ policy is that to outbid the previous bidder, you have to outbid them by 5%, you would then outbid the previous “bidder” by 5%. And so, for example, we have this Winchester 1866 SRC that “sold” at the previous auction for $19,047:
https://www.wardscollectibles.com/auction/A95/viewitem.php?item=4011
$19047 x 5% is $952.35. $19047 + $952.35 is $19,999.35. So the reserve on this SRC was $20,000 in March’s Auction.
Ward’s will list with reserve one auction only. This next auction, with no reserve, this SRC sold for $12,525:
https://www.wardscollectibles.com/auction/A97/viewitem.php?item=4010
Which tells me it’s probably a good idea to avoid the asterisks!
FWIW, Most auctions will not identify in any way a lot with a reserve. And for sure will not identify the approximate reserve, either. Generally they seem to think (and apparently it is true) that it gives too much power to the bidder. There have been a few auctions where I had a bid that seemed to be the high bid, yet the item did not sell which meant the reserve was not met. Had they informed me of such I just might have jumped my own bid to reach the reserve. All water under the bridge. Always remember, the auction is designed to achieve as high a bid as possible. Their per centage is benefited plus it helps the seller WHEN IT SELLS. They do whatever they can to see it sell. Tim
tim tomlinson said Had they informed me of such I just might have jumped my own bid to reach the reserve.
What does it prove when neither yours nor any other bid meets the reserve? Clearly, that it was unreasonably high! So in this case, & certainly without meaning to, the auction service did you a favor by not informing you! If it’s not too late, send them a “thank you” note!
November 7, 2015
Offline
clarence said
tim tomlinson said Had they informed me of such I just might have jumped my own bid to reach the reserve.
What does it prove when neither yours nor any other bid meets the reserve? Clearly, that it was unreasonably high! So in this case, & certainly without meaning to, the auction service did you a favor by not informing you! If it’s not too late, send them a “thank you” note!
Sometimes not meeting the reserve may indicate that interested buyers simply weren’t bidding or even aware of the offering, as you know it generally takes at least two bidders to increase the bid. It’s also quite possible Tim saw something other bidders did not notice, a likely scenario with some of the folks buying at today’s auctions. Or maybe, other bidders saw or knew something Tim didn’t see. I have attended antique car auctions where the auctioneer will hint the reserve is close to being met or will ask the seller to to drop the reserve. Sometimes that inspires bids that more than meet the reserve but generally not. I’m surprised that an auction company will identify an item with a reserve. Interesting strategy.
Mike
TXGunNut said
Sometimes not meeting the reserve may indicate that interested buyers simply weren’t bidding or even aware of the offering, as you know it generally takes at least two bidders to increase the bid.
Most on-line auctions have PLENTY of greedy bidders eager to slap the other guy down, even the more obscure ones, because they can’t “hide” from internet searches, & certainly the promoters do everything they can to make sure they’re “noticed.” Guess it’s possible one could through mismanagement slip beneath the radar, but that’s typical.
TXGunNut said
clarence said
tim tomlinson said Had they informed me of such I just might have jumped my own bid to reach the reserve.
What does it prove when neither yours nor any other bid meets the reserve? Clearly, that it was unreasonably high! So in this case, & certainly without meaning to, the auction service did you a favor by not informing you! If it’s not too late, send them a “thank you” note!
Sometimes not meeting the reserve may indicate that interested buyers simply weren’t bidding or even aware of the offering, as you know it generally takes at least two bidders to increase the bid. It’s also quite possible Tim saw something other bidders did not notice, a likely scenario with some of the folks buying at today’s auctions. Or maybe, other bidders saw or knew something Tim didn’t see. I have attended antique car auctions where the auctioneer will hint the reserve is close to being met or will ask the seller to to drop the reserve. Sometimes that inspires bids that more than meet the reserve but generally not. I’m surprised that an auction company will identify an item with a reserve. Interesting strategy.
Ward’s does it more subtly than most, just using an asterisk *. Many other auction houses boldly state ***RESERVE NOT MET***.
Now that I have had some time to think about this, I would be really irritated to discover I was bidding on something, thinking I was bidding against not someone else, but a computer. Which means I’m valuing this item more, perhaps significantly more, than the other 8.2 billion of us out there.
mrcvs said
Now that I have had some time to think about this, I would be really irritated to discover I was bidding on something, thinking I was bidding against not someone else, but a computer.
Nothing more than high-tech shill bidding.
clarence said
mrcvs said
Now that I have had some time to think about this, I would be really irritated to discover I was bidding on something, thinking I was bidding against not someone else, but a computer.
Nothing more than high-tech shill bidding.
It sure sounds like that to me, doesn’t it?
Win61 said
I had not intended to add anything to the discussion of right or wrong selling methods. Since Lou’s post mentioned helping fellow WACA members in purchasing collectable rifles I thought that I would add that I believe that one of the induvial was me so I will continue the story.Lou knew that I was looking for a Winchester Model 70 pre 64 Super Grade featherweight 30-06 SPRG. He called me letting me know of a person that had one for sale. Lou said that he had one and thought someone else would enjoy owning one. He did not say what the owner was asking, or did he tell the owner what I might pay. I called the owner, being on level ground we started negotiating. He (the owner) was asking $500 more than I wanted to pay but where do you find another Winchester Model 70 Super Grade Featherweight, so I said lets go for it. I could have probably waited and watched for one a little less expensive, but I do not have that much time. Lou was an outstanding help in determining if things were right on the rifle. Thanks Lou.
Recently I located a Winchester Model 70 Super Grade Featherweight 308 caliber through another Model 70 collector. I purchased the rifle with help from Lou and Steve (seewin) determining if it was legit. Thanks to both of these guys for their assistance.
I now have 3 of (already had the 243 which Lou helped me get the correct floorplate) the 4 Winchester Model 70 Super Grade Featherweight rifles that were made between 1955 and 1959. I now need the 270 WCF to complete the group. If anyone has an extra 270 let me know.
Here is the list compiled by Roger Rule.
(1) 308 Win (101) made
(2) 270 W,C.F, (248)
(3) 243 Win (260)
(4) 30-06 (321)
I could not have gotten this far on my collection if it were not for the outstanding help of Lou Luttrell and Steve Emmert. Thanks again guys.
Dick
Here’s a model 70 super grade featherweight in .270 WIN on GI right now:
Don
Thank you Don;
I have viewed the listing and I am awaiting comments from Louis Luttrell and Steve Emmert. Will let you know how it goes.
Dick
November 5, 2014
Offline
As Dick already knows, I sent him feedback via e-mail. Some things aren’t appropriate for “polite company”…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis Luttrell said
As Dick already knows, I sent him feedback via e-mail. Some things aren’t appropriate for “polite company”…
Stock finish looks to me more like oil than lacquer, as I assume would have been used in ’56. Would it be too “impolite” to comment on that?
November 7, 2015
Offline
clarence said
Louis Luttrell said
As Dick already knows, I sent him feedback via e-mail. Some things aren’t appropriate for “polite company”…
Stock finish looks to me more like oil than lacquer, as I assume would have been used in ’56. Would it be too “impolite” to comment on that?
All I’ll say is second pic told me all I needed to know.
Mike
November 5, 2014
Offline
Hi Clarence-
No that would NOT be impolite, but other pics I’ve saved (not from this seller) do look better. I’m not much good at judging (re)finishes from photos anyway unless they’re really atrocious…
It happens that this particular rifle has been around the block a few times, i.e. has been “surveyed” several times before over the past few years, and it has yet to find a “permanent home”… Probably for good reason… According to pics I’d saved from before it was sold the first time, it used to have a plain bolt and a Du-Lite blued barrel, so it’s “morphed” a bit over the years… The “evolution” occurred before it was (most recently) acquired at auction in June 2024, so I’m NOT casting aspersions on the current GI seller…
I didn’t look at the GI pics this time (much)…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
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