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This rifle on Gunbroker is not an original 14 inch trapper. It was sold at Shamrock Auctions in May of 2012, Lot 226, and later out of Cabela’s with a standard 20 inch barrel. Now it sports a cutdown 14 inch barrel, short fore end, and a BATF “authenticity letter”, and is a 44 WCF instead of 38 WCF as it was originally!!! http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/625290137 The attached photos are from the Cabela’s listing. Sorry but I do not have a date for that listing.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Nice catch! So now what, do you send an email telling him what he has or let it slide? Rick
Well now, the federal government is never wrong, about anything! I think this model 92 “self-identifies” as being a 14-inch 44wcf caliber trapper! Now you can take it with you into any bathroom that you’d like.
Good catch and I imagine this has happened before. He sure is awful careful to not show the serial number in his photos.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
funny how he covered up the last part of the serial number on one sentence of the ATF letter, but failed to do so right below it.
Maverick said
Good catch and I imagine this has happened before. He sure is awful careful to not show the serial number in his photos.
Sincerely,
Maverick
Maverick,
And he tears the last two digits of the serial number in the letter but the number is then listed in the next line right below that!!! Mr. Rocket Science here!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Hey, give the guy some credit, he does have some sizable huevos! don’t suppose the ATF is bursting with Winchester experts, but still takes a gambling man to fake this Gun and send it to the people that can turn that into a federal crime…You would think they should know enough to check # against the factory letter? At least vaguely aware of Cody records? interesting..brian
These guys should be punished severely. At very minimum report his butt to Gunbroker
briango said
Hey, give the guy some credit, he does have some sizable huevos! don’t suppose the ATF is bursting with Winchester experts, but still takes a gambling man to fake this Gun and send it to the people that can turn that into a federal crime…You would think they should know enough to check # against the factory letter? At least vaguely aware of Cody records? interesting..brian
There are no surviving records that can be used to verify the as built configuration. The factory ledger records for the Model 1892 end at 379999.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
1badf350 said
These guys should be punished severely. At very minimum report his butt to Gunbroker
I sent the seller a stern warning where I strongly suggested that he remove the listing and not ever list it again.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
There are no surviving records that can be used to verify the as built configuration. The factory ledger records for the Model 1892 end at 379999.
Bert
Bert, in your experience, are they good about using the Cody resources when available? brian
twobit said
This rifle on Gunbroker is not an original 14 inch trapper. It was sold at Shamrock Auctions in May of 2012, Lot 226, and later out of Cabela’s with a standard 20 inch barrel. Now it sports a cutdown 14 inch barrel, short fore end, and a BATF “authenticity letter”, and is a 44 WCF instead of 38 WCF as it was originally!!! http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/625290137 The attached photos are from the Cabela’s listing. Sorry but I do not have a date for that listing.Michael
Michael,
If it helps any, you snap shotted these pictures in March of 2016.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
briango said
Bert, in your experience, are they good about using the Cody resources when available? brian
I believe that they are, but I can not positively confirm it. In most cases, if the Trapper in question is letterable, I would expect the owner to send a copy of the CFM letter with the gun to the BATF Technical Branch to help speed up and smooth the process.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
The auction has been closed!! One for the good guys!!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
twobit said
The auction has been closed!! One for the good guys!!Michael
Like I mentioned, I sent the seller a very stern warning… he apparently took heed of it.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I just love the fact that he was going to charge $100 shipping !
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
Thanks Bert! Love the smell of smackdown in the morning! Smells like…..victory.
Michael, Question as to the quality of the fake. Were you only able to spot this because of your prior documentation of the gun? or was their warning signs visible in the listing photos, that you, or others with knowledge would or should spot?
briango said
Michael, Question as to the quality of the fake. Were you only able to spot this because of your prior documentation of the gun? or was their warning signs visible in the listing photos, that you, or others with knowledge would or should spot?
I knew it was fake because I had seen it previously.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
November 7, 2015
Offline
Good catch, likely saved an unwitting buyer a huge headache. Find it hard to believe someone quite possibly committed a felony to sell a $1200 rifle. On top of that it appeared to be a nice enough rifle before he butchered it. Buyer beware, indeed.
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