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July 18, 2026
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Hello all,
This is my first post on this forum. I’ve been a long time firearm enthusiast and a lot of my time has been spent collecting and studying WWII era Finnish military rifles.
I find that rifles of today don’t seem to do much for me so anytime I can acquire an old “new to me” rifle it’s very exciting.
I recently acquired an 1873 in .38WCF. It’s in what I would call great shape for its age. I’ve studied up on these as much as I can but I have come across a discrepancy in being able to determine it’s “original-ness”.
Everything about this rifle checks out to me….except one thing….its a 20” barrel without a saddle ring…to me this would mean it’s a “short rifle” instead of a carbine. But the forearm length and distance from rear sight to receiver isn’t right to be a short rifle. Nothing on the muzzle end indicated it had previously been tampered with or cut..so I’m at a loss.
It shoots phenomenally well, and the barrel has strong rifling with as bright of a bore as I’ve seen for a rifle its age.
I got it lettered from the Cody Museum, but unfortunately they had next to no info on this rifle. Not even the original barrel length.
Are there other examples of short rifles previously discovered that were factory original but didn’t have all typical features of a short rifle?
Thanks
April 15, 2005
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If (when) no barrel length was listed in the factory ledger records, that indicates that it was the standard length. For a Model 1873 Rifle the standard barrel length was 24-inches.
Measuring the precise location of the front sight dovetail slot will usually identify a cut-down barrel, as will the precise location of the magazine tube retaining ring.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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May 2, 2009
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If you can’t post the pictures you can email them to me. Another thing you can check is measure the muzzle diameter with a dial calipers or a micrometer. Here is a picture of a 20″ short rifle.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
July 18, 2026
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Thank you all for your responses.
1873man,
are the octagonal barrels tapered? I have a set of mics and can get a measurement of the barrel at the muzzle.
please share your email address and Id be happy to share some photos.
Bert,
if I take those measurements, what should I be getting?
May 2, 2009
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They do have a taper but the tolerances are fairly wide but its could be a outside chance it would show what happened. Just like the barrel diameter tolerance the front sight placement has a tolerance. I’ve been seeing .725″ to .790″ from the muzzle to the closest cut at the bottom of the dovetail for 2nd and 3rd models. I checked a few first models and a 66 and they are more, .8″ plus. My email is below my picture.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
April 15, 2005
Online
While I admittedly have not measured more than a handful of Model 1873 barrels, for the Single Shot (M1885), Models 1886, 1890, 1892, and 1894 they front sight dovetail cuts are precisely milled into the barrel .750″ from the muzzle face (+/- .002″). The measurement is from the face of the muzzle to the forwardmost edge of the bottom edge of the milled dovetail cut. For the magazine retaining ring, the measured distance from the muzzle face to the transverse pin should be 3.75″ (again +/- a few thousandths).
As Bob mentioned, the octagon barrels were tapered, and the taper rate could vary slightly from one barrel to the next. On the standard weight (size) octagon barrels the tape rate was usually .005/per inch. The Heavy and Extra Heavy barrels typically have a .0025/per inch taper rate.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
July 18, 2026
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1873man said
They do have a taper but the tolerances are fairly wide but its could be a outside chance it would show what happened. Just like the barrel diameter tolerance the front sight placement has a tolerance. I’ve been seeing .725″ to .790″ from the muzzle to the closest cut at the bottom of the dovetail for 2nd and 3rd models. I checked a few first models and a 66 and they are more, .8″ plus. My email is below my picture.
Bob
Hi Bob,
I sent you an email with photos and some dimensions.
Thanks
July 18, 2026
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Bert H. said
While I admittedly have not measured more than a handful of Model 1873 barrels, for the Single Shot (M1885), Models 1886, 1890, 1892, and 1894 they front sight dovetail cuts are precisely milled into the barrel .750″ from the muzzle face (+/- .002″). The measurement is from the face of the muzzle to the forwardmost edge of the bottom edge of the milled dovetail cut. For the magazine retaining ring, the measured distance from the muzzle face to the transverse pin should be 3.75″ (again +/- a few thousandths).
As Bob mentioned, the octagon barrels were tapered, and the taper rate could vary slightly from one barrel to the next. On the standard weight (size) octagon barrels the tape rate was usually .005/per inch. The Heavy and Extra Heavy barrels typically have a .0025/per inch taper rate.
Bert
Thanks Bert. Great info here.
May 2, 2009
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The gun is a early 38 caliber rifle and when they first made them they came standard with a shotgun butt but some were ordered with rifle butt plates like yours. Later they switched the butt to a rifle butt like the rest of the rifles as standard. The gun has had the barrel cut short. The front sight is too close to the muzzle and there is no magazine band are the two items that gives it away and also the Cody letter tells us what the guns configuration was. The letter says its a rifle and does not say a barrel length so it is the standard length for a rifle which is 24″. Here is your picture of the end of the barrel and I have posted another picture what it should look like.
The gun looks like nice honest gun except for the cut barrel. It is now a shooter grade gun.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
July 18, 2026
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Thanks for the detail and uploading the photos. I really enjoy this rifle and its history. Though the cut barrel is unfortunate.
How does one place value on these rifles? I’d like to get an idea. Knowing it’s shooter grade I wouldn’t expect much I imagine.
March 20, 2010
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Cwright1016 said
How does one place value on these rifles? I’d like to get an idea. Knowing it’s shooter grade I wouldn’t expect much I imagine.
With one that has been altered, such as the one you have, Ive always quantified it by the total cost or value of original parts remaining if trying to establish a dollar value.
However, if it offers you lots of fun, use, and not a lot of worry about throwing it behind the truck seat from time to time, what difference does it make. The alternative would be to find a replacement barrel and magazine tube, provided it wont break the bank when rolled into the original purchase price.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
May 2, 2009
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It got some nice fitting wood on it which is the first thing that goes bad if the gun is used a lot so if its got a good bore it would be worth $1300 as a shooter depending on who you sold it to. I know someone would buy the gun just to get the wood to put on their own gun.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
December 7, 2025
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1873man said
They do have a taper but the tolerances are fairly wide but its could be a outside chance it would show what happened. Just like the barrel diameter tolerance the front sight placement has a tolerance. I’ve been seeing .725″ to .790″ from the muzzle to the closest cut at the bottom of the dovetail for 2nd and 3rd models. I checked a few first models and a 66 and they are more, .8″ plus. My email is below my picture.
Bob
So I recieved the 1873 I had posted about before with the 18” barrel- Cody says it was shipped with 44 other rifles all having 26” barrels and set triggers – I posted pics in other post of trigger as it doesn’t look like set trigger to me – here’s measurements I have – length 18 1/8 – muzzle to sight – .76 – muzzle to magazine band 3.95- muzzle diameter octagon – .78- forearm 8 1/2” – second model rifle – could Cody be wrong ?
May 2, 2009
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Post pictures of the complete barrel from all sides and what the letter says.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 19, 2006
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1873man said
The gun is a early 38 caliber rifle and when they first made them they came standard with a shotgun butt but some were ordered with rifle butt plates like yours. Later they switched the butt to a rifle butt like the rest of the rifles as standard. The gun has had the barrel cut short. The front sight is too close to the muzzle and there is no magazine band are the two items that gives it away and also the Cody letter tells us what the guns configuration was. The letter says its a rifle and does not say a barrel length so it is the standard length for a rifle which is 24″. Here is your picture of the end of the barrel and I have posted another picture what it should look like.
The gun looks like nice honest gun except for the cut barrel. It is now a shooter grade gun.
Bob
I had no idea this was the case. Very interesting. Amazing this fact has eluded me all these years (decades) (scores of years) 
December 7, 2025
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December 7, 2025
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Gunsnfishin said
May 2, 2009
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I would say the barrel was bobbed from the big chamfer in the ID and the saw marks. The dovetail for the mag tube band is not factory. Wrench marks on the breech flats.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
December 7, 2025
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1873man said
I would say the barrel was bobbed from the big chamfer in the ID and the saw marks. The dovetail for the mag tube band is not factory. Wrench marks on the breech flats.
Bob
This gun was aggressively cleaned by someone – even to the point they might have used a power tool – marks all over gun
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