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deer, when I spoke to him on the phone he guaranteed the guns “1000%” and shipped “on inspection” until the inspection turned up what he either missed or tried to hide.
nanzca said
Bob, When Julia’s sold the gun it had 75% blue on the left side, now its 99%. I put a link under my refinish comment.
Oh THAT is fraudulent by any measure!!! Nice work nanzca!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Two, he was sent the link to the Julia auction yesterday (after the auction ended) and has emailed me to immediately stop contacting him or he’ll contact his attorney.
nanzca said
Two, he was sent the link to the Julia auction yesterday (after the auction ended) and has emailed me to immediately stop contacting him or he’ll contact his attorney.
Sounds like he could use a good defense attorney anyway. Before this post started, I was drooling over all of his guns for sale and wished I had the money to buy any of them. Now I’ll never be interested in anything he has for sale. I’m sure everyone here appreciates this fraud being exposed. Has any of this been reported to Gunbroker?
deer, gunbroker told me in an email that all items are sold as is and returns are only allowed if described in the auction description. Basically not their problem. If anyone that is a moderator here or there may have better luck.
August 11, 2015
Offline
Looks like someone bought it for $18,000+. Was very interested in the photo of what looks to be some sort of shipping stock ticket. Is this a piece of documentation that is readily available?
Please advise.
Thanks,
Online
It available if your gun is a late 73. But its not a shipping ticket, its the rocord card. Earlier guns were recorded in bound ledger books and at the end they went to cards, one for each gun. The nice about the cards is it included the destination.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Hey all;
Would I recognize the name of this “Seller”? Perhaps a PM might help me here. It appears that perhaps a goodly number of “Reputable” Auction Houses and Dealers seem to be letting the “BIG BUCKS” get the better part of their judgement of late . What ever happened to the advertized, so called, “INTEGRITY”? HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA. Oops, I just fell off my chair while laughing too hard.
Apache. (Ya Ta Hey, Kola) 
Hi,
I think that this rifle now has a “cloud” over it. I am surprised that WACA members or friends did not comment on this before the sale.The pictures fooled a lot of old time collectors. I will not buy an old Winchester unless I have my hands on it. This gun will go underground until the Old Coots go away. It was fun to collect Winchesters before all the fakes surfaced.
Walter
nanzca said
Two, he was sent the link to the Julia auction yesterday (after the auction ended) and has emailed me to immediately stop contacting him or he’ll contact his attorney.
That is an empty threat if I ever heard one. What is the sellers real name?
I am a moderator on Gunbroker.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
nanzca said
Two, he was sent the link to the Julia auction yesterday (after the auction ended) and has emailed me to immediately stop contacting him or he’ll contact his attorney.
That is an empty threat if I ever heard one. What is the sellers real name?
I am a moderator on Gunbroker.
Bert
The seller is “cubancrisis” out of Cortez FL.
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Info for all;
I wonce had an issue with the franchise owner of a “World” reknown firearms dealership. He purchased an 1886 “Antique”, Black Powder Frame Winchester from me. This through a well known auction house site. Although he knew that if he FIRED it, he owned it, as per the rules of the auction, he did anyway. Being wealthy enough to be ABOVE ALL THE RULES, he felt the rules didn’t apply to him. Instead of using a reduced power Black Powder cartridge, (The 1886 was manufactured in 1887) he fired a modern HOT load and cracked the frame. He then tried to return it back to me stating “I received it that way, and want my money back”. He also used the line, “If you don’t send me back my money, you will hear from my Attorney”. Back in the day, when I used to sell firearms, just before shipping I photographed each and every part with dated shots. (Good advise once given to me by an Attorney) Uknown to this “Above the Rules” individual, this Winchester was a very well known 1886. (I never liked 1886’s) My responce to his threat to “sig” his lawyer on me was as follows. “Yes, I would like you to have your Attorney contact me as soon as possible. If not, this will get way beyond where you want it to go!” It was settled almost imediately after that. Sometimes you just have to call a person’s bluff.
Apache (Ya Ta Hey Kola)
Thanks nanzca for the education. I have to admit I am a little confused over the situation. Is it any kind of crime , or standard business practice? If you look at the Julia description , the whole gun has been refinished , but offered as a mint original. . and certainly not a one-off mistake. The seller may now have to change his sellers name , but Im sure it wont be much of a hardship for him.
I happen to like re-finished guns (for the prices I paid) Because up here it was commonplace for a slow gunsmith (50’s-60’s) to re-do a gun mechanically and cosmetically , rather than sit idle off season till just before fall hunt when he was swamped. They would only re-do a very low mileage gun with exc bore, because this is the only way it could be re- salable. It filled a small ‘niche’ , to nostalgic guys like me, before replicas were being offered. I have bought a few for very cheap money , (cheaper than a well used rough bore ratty original ) I consider them very nice shooters and a big step up from a replica.
My question is how are these fakes (including re-case color or whatever ‘enhancement’) in the end worth any more than an acknowledged re-finish ? What would this exposed 73 be worth now ?
Input appreciated
Phil
Wow, $18,500 for an unhands on rifle on an internet auction with a stated no inspection period. That takes balls!!
Once again I’m reminded of Phineas Taylor Barnum!
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
25-20 said
Thanks nanzca for the education. What would this exposed 73 be worth now ?
Input appreciated
Phil
It is educational, Phil, and your question is too.
James
I reached out to GB to try and get contact info for the buyer and give him this info but GB said they can’t give it to me, even after I explained that this guy was going to throw away about 13,000! I also sent a message to his last transaction which was April 2015 but I haven’t heard from him yet. We’ll see.
Wincacher said
Once again I’m reminded of Phineas Taylor Barnum!
Amen to that! I sincerely doubt that the buyer knows that he bought a restored/refinished Winchester
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
I agree with that. I am seeing new collectors only like “pretty guns”. This is Wall Street money.
Walter
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