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Model 70 Sight Ramp Location
May 6, 2021
12:50 am
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Was there a standard distance from the front of the sight ramp to the muzzle?  I recall reading that there was, but cannot find the reference. If the location varied over time, then specifically I want to know about the braised-on ramp from the mid-1950s. Thanks in advance.

May 6, 2021
10:14 am
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No, there was not an exact specified “standard” distance from the front of the sight ramp to the muzzle on the brazed ramp.  If I recall correctly, the ramp location was determined by a set distance from the barrel shoulder as the datum.  The factory drawing gave the distance from the back of the brazed ramp to the barrel shoulder and also from the center of the dovetail to the back of the ramp.  The distance from the front of the ramp to the muzzle was not specified so it may vary slightly due to machining tolerances and polishing.

Steve or Lou may be able to provide more information.

Best Regards,

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May 6, 2021
11:10 am
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My question stems from a particular rifle in 375 H&H that is being offered for sale.  It has a 22-inch barrel that the dealer claims to be original and “special order” but without documentation. The front and rear sights look correct, but the front sight ramp looks to be a bit too close to the muzzle. This particular rifle has obviously been used, but the dealer is asking for a fairly high premium over a shooter-grade rifle having a standard 25-inch barrel in a similar condition.  Was a short barrel available as a special order option for this rifle?

May 6, 2021
12:27 pm
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I’d bet very heavily that the barrel has been cut.

May 6, 2021
2:06 pm
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Jeff is correct. The brazed ramp 375 barrel drawing show’s the ramp dimension from the tenon shoulder to c/l of ramp dovetail. It is listed as 23.17″ for the 25″ barrel, so this dimension would have to adjusted accordingly for the 22″ barrel. I know they made at least 1 other 375 with a 22″ barrel. I have that one and it is a 1955 rifle with forged ramp. I have owned it for about 30 years and it was a well used hunting rifle when I picked it up.

    The forged ramp drawing on the 375 barrel provides the same dimension, but also gives a 1.100″ dimension from c/l of dovetail to muzzle tip. I do not own a brazed ramp 375 so have no way of checking to see if both are the same.

Steve

May 6, 2021
2:51 pm
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Steve, could you post a picture of the drawing?  I remember seeing it somewhere but evidently, I didn’t save it.

Jeff

 

P.S.  The rifle I am questioning was made in 1956.

May 6, 2021
3:15 pm
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Sorry, I do not have pictures of the drawings. The dimension in question is what I have previously posted in earlier post. All the drawing shows is the overall length and the sight ramp location dimension.  A 1956 375 seem’s a bit early to have a brazed ramp. The drawing was not even made until November 21st of 1956. 

Steve

May 6, 2021
3:20 pm
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Hi Jeff-

Seewin and JWA are the guys in the know, but perhaps I can help a little by posting a couple pictures of the brazed ramp from a regular 25″ C-1 contour barrel.  As Steve said, the center of the ramp dovetail would be 23.17″ from the barrel tenon shoulder and 1.10″ from the muzzle face.  Another thing to note is that the C-1 barrel was crowned like the other standard rifles of the day, not flat like the target models:

C-1-Brazed-Ramp-Profile.jpgImage EnlargerC-1-Crown.jpgImage Enlarger

Leroy Merz currently has for sale a M70 375 H&H Magnum with 22″ barrel (S/N 369334).  According to my survey it has previously sold via Poulin Auctions.  While the photos are not great, to my eye the ramp on that one is out of position and the barrel may (?) have a flat crown.  Both of those things would tend to make me think the barrel on his rifle had been shortened as an aftermarket modification:

Merz-1.jpegImage EnlargerMerz-2.jpegImage Enlarger

Just my take…

Lou

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May 6, 2021
3:46 pm
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Lou,

That IS the rifle in question. I have a couple more photos that are not included in the listing but not sure how to upload them here. 

 

Jeff

May 7, 2021
3:38 pm
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Hi Steve-

FWIW… In my survey, with 206 375 MAGNUM serial numbers recorded to date, the transition from integral to brazed ramps on 25″ C-1 barrels occurred pretty abruptly around S/N 297XXX.  Your special order 22″ barrel would have been an exception, made up just for that rifle.  Laugh

Just rambling here, but some general observations about the brazed ramps, b/c Rule’s book is a little vague on the transition.  The plan to change ramp design (and save money) came about around the time the Featherweight style was being developed, so all the FWTs, which start around S/N 220XXX (1952), have brazed ramps.  I believe the switch over for the standard barrels was planned for the same time and implemented once existing standard barrel blanks with forged ramps were depleted.  In other words, not many standard barrels were made from scratch after 1951-2 with forged ramps, but there must have been a bunch of finished or “in process” standard barrels in inventory, b/c even looking at high volume chamberings the brazed ramps don’t start becoming commonplace on standard rifles until around S/N 240XXX in 30-06 and 270XXX in 270 WIN (mid to late 1953).  I have one rather ordinary 270 WIN standard rifle with a forged ramp and ’53 barrel date, so it must have taken some time to finish out all the forged ramp standard barrel blanks before they started making new brazed ramp barrels…  Confused

For lower volume guns the transition is even later, like the 375 MAGNUM (mid-1954), two years after the introduction of the FWT,  In 22 HORNET standard rifles, for example, I’ve found very few with brazed ramps and those are above 300XXX.  Even the few 22 HORNET rifles with S/Ns above 400XXX I’ve recorded have mostly forged ramps.  For that matter, despite the adoption of hollow bolt knobs in 1952, I’ve yet to find a 22 HORNET, regardless of serial number, with a type III-3 receiver (hollow bolt knob), the Hornet bolt being a unique part.  So the timing of these transitions is quite style AND caliber specific.

Just my take…

Lou

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