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steve004 said
Bert – that is a rare and interesting box of cartridges. I really enjoyed that the cartridges looked like they are in fantastic condition. The box looked nice too. It looks like they used their standard box for .50-95 cartridges and added two stickers to make it a box for shot cartridges. It is interesting that they are marked for single-shot rifles only. I suspect very few .50-95 Winchester rifles were made in their single-shot rifle.I believe these cartridges would work in my Standard Arms Camp .50. I suspect this box was made before the Camp .50 was introduced. To my knowledge, there is no box of cartridges that specifies uses for the Camp .50. But I sure would like to find one.
Thanks for posting.
Steve,
When I acquired the box it had 12 original cartridges in it. It took me nearly three years to find 8 more in the same condition and vintage. It is now a “full” box with all cartridges being nearly identical in condition, and with the same head stamp. Winchester made a different style shot cartridge for the Model 1876 Repeater that has a cardboard bullet shaped shot carrier.
Winchester manufactured 254 high-wall rifles in 50-95 W.C.F. The upper rifle in my signature picture below is one of them. With the extremely slow rifling twist rate of 1:60, it is practically a smoothbore, and it would most likely shoot a decent pattern with the shot cartridges.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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Bert, I greatly admire your ability to put a “full” box together! Ray Giles would be proud of you! That box and its contents is a gem. Keep it safe! Jockey.
tim tomlinson said
Bert, I greatly admire your ability to put a “full” box together! Ray Giles would be proud of you! That box and its contents is a gem. Keep it safe! Jockey.
Hanes,
I spoke with Ray about this box, and just how rare it is… it is just one of two that he has ever seen. I am planning to bring the rifle and that box of ammo to the Cody Show next year for display.
Bert – Fruit
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert, That would be very nice of you! If your box of cartridges comes up missing–might want to check over my way? Actually, suggest a plastic container for them so they DON’T grow legs and wander off! Tim
Tim – thanks for all of you efforts. Very interesting. On my Camp .50, as I’ve mentioned, both the .50-95 and .50-110 original shot cartridges will chamber. Whether Standard Arms cut the chamber with the idea of accommodating either is something we will likely never know. It seems unlikely there was a specific cartridge made up for the Camp .50. I say that because I would think someone would have found at least one example by now. I also say that because the Standard Arms advertising named three different cartridge producers who had cartridges available for the Camp 50. Specifically, these three companies were Winchester, Rem-UMC and Peters. Were all three of these companies producing .50 caliber shot cartridges (e.g. .50-95 and .50-110) during the 1912-1914 approximate period that the Camp .50 was manufactured?
For those wanting to see some better photos of a Camp .50:
I was amused to read in their Camp .50 ad:
“The Standard Arms, “Camp” gun is carefully tested and targeted with both shot and ball cartridges before leaving the factory.” Hmmm the gun has no sights….
And while we’re at it, was there a .50-95 “ball cartridge” – I wonder what they could be referring to?
Steve, I would assume “ball” means “solid projectile”. Old Army (and Marine) term. Example is the model 1911 service pistol. It shot “ball ammo”. Ditto when talking the service rifles, etc. If I guess, it is a hold over from when military arms DID shoot balls! I am not a cartridge collector (Ray Giles disagrees) and I don’t have history to know when Winchester ceased making their shot cartridges for the 50-95. Probably right after Bert’s box was made! No idea, really. Interesting camp gun!! Assume then the chamber is big enough for all, and assume the pressures are low enough the 50-110 rounds don’t split?
Tim
Bert H. said
Steve,This is what I have…
Bert
Here is a box currently for sale. Amazingly similar to Bert’s. About the same number of cartridges as well:
Steve,
That box is in much poorer condition than the box & cartridges in my collection. The box & cartridges on GI have been poorly cared for and are damaged. Additionally, by box is now 100% full of original factory cartridges.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Steve,
That box is in much poorer condition than the box & cartridges in my collection. The box & cartridges on GI have been poorly cared for and are damaged. Additionally, by box is now 100% full of original factory cartridges.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert –
I can see your box is in much better condition. And congratulations on having it full. I was referring to the fact that it seems the same style box, cartridges, add on stickers etc. There can’t be many of these boxes out there that have survived.
steve004 said
Bert –I can see your box is in much better condition. And congratulations on having it full. I was referring to the fact that it seems the same style box, cartridges, add on stickers etc. There can’t be many of these boxes out there that have survived.
That is just the second box I have seen. Ray Giles mentioned that my box was only the second one he had seen, and the slightly better condition of the two. So Yes, they are quite scarce.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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