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November 7, 2015
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Bert H. said
Mike,
I will bring a cattle prod with me to Cody this year to help “sharpen” your attention
Bert
Bert-
I’ll steal the batteries first time you run off on a survey quest! You’d probably want to test it when I try to sneak a nap.
Mike
December 27, 2024
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Louis Luttrell said
Dan-
I CLEARLY post too much!!! I will go through all my posts over the past year and see if I can locate the one you’re thinking of…
In the meantime, since you’re a Member, I suggest you read this article in the Winter 2001 WACA Collector by Dr. Vic Van Ballenberghe. It’s entitled “How to Buy a Fake Model 70 Winchester” and it’s the best article I’ve yet seen dealing with the Model 70 fake trade…
https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/200101/26/
BTW… If you can name at least some of the anonymous fakers Vic mentioned in the article, then you’ve been around this game too long!!!
Lou
I just put a request in to see if one is still available. Thanks so much for your good help.
Dan #67288
August 8, 2024
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Louis, Thank you for bringing up Vic’s old post. It is still very relevant Today! Knowledge is power! The more we know. Well, the better off we will be! This forum helps a great deal to gain the information that is needed to identify a correct Winchester, or one with concerns.
August 27, 2014
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It’s a cruel world out there
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
November 5, 2014
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Dan
Hard copies of the Winter 2001 issue of the collector magazine are no longer available, but you can read Vic’s article by logging in and going to the Publications > Magazines > Winter 2001 page. One of the perks of WACA Membership!!! 
I think that this is the thread where I used the phrase you mentioned above. The one that started with a discussion of your 243 WIN Standard Rifle:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/1956-i-believe-winchester-model-70/
Here are two others where I ran on at the mouth about forgeries:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/omg-questionable-pre-64-m70-carbine-sold/
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/late-pre-64-70-super-grade-featherweight/
I CLEARLY post too much!!! I think I’m going to tone it down some!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
March 31, 2009
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Louis Luttrell said
I CLEARLY post too much!!! I think I’m going to tone it down some!!!
Lou
I would hate to see that happen. I’m learning so much from your posts. I bet so many more are too.
December 27, 2024
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Louis Luttrell said
Dan
Hard copies of the Winter 2001 issue of the collector magazine are no longer available, but you can read Vic’s article by logging in and going to the Publications > Magazines > Winter 2001 page. One of the perks of WACA Membership!!!
I think that this is the thread where I used the phrase you mentioned above. The one that started with a discussion of your 243 WIN Standard Rifle:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/1956-i-believe-winchester-model-70/
Here are two others where I ran on at the mouth about forgeries:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/omg-questionable-pre-64-m70-carbine-sold/
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/late-pre-64-70-super-grade-featherweight/
I CLEARLY post too much!!! I think I’m going to tone it down some!!!
Lou
I can read it online – I am old fashion and like paper. and I was going to carry one in my truck for a quick reference guide. But I will do what I gotta do
Dan #67288
December 27, 2024
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Chuck said
Louis Luttrell said
I CLEARLY post too much!!! I think I’m going to tone it down some!!!
Lou
I would hate to see that happen. I’m learning so much from your posts. I bet so many more are too.
agreed!
Dan #67288
April 15, 2005
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Louis Luttrell said
Dan-
I CLEARLY post too much!!!
Lou
A CLEARLY facetious post!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 8, 2025
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You could say I’m casually looking for an M70 30-06. This thread has been a wealth of knowledge. Just stumbled upon this on GB and thought I’d present it to the class for evaluation and discussion.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1152634957
Thanks,
Adam
August 27, 2014
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Hello Adam,
Front sight is not correct, should be a Redfield 254 full gold bead that will set you back $400.00 – $500.00
The barrel had to be drilled to attach that Stith front scope base, a better option would have been the Stith base that uses the rear dovetail
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
December 9, 2002
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Louis Luttrell said
Hey Guys-
I post too much as it is… Usually while drunk and pissed off (at things in general)… I express many opinions, some of which I’ll stand by in the morning…
This might be the thread you’re referencing? Let me know if this is the one you’re thinking of. If not, I’ll look again…
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/late-pre-64-70-super-grade-featherweight/
The thing is that prior to 1955, all you need to “make” a Super Grade is a stock, floor plate, and front sight. There ARE subtle period changes that you should (I would) expect to see and that help narrow down the DOM of the SG specific parts, but that really is a “school lesson”… For example, a floor plate that’s “correct” on a 1942 Super Grade should not be on a 1937 Super Grade. There’s more to it than the presence/absence of a “Helvetica ‘G'” (Both should have that “G”). There are other differences…
Hope this helps…
Lou
What a Blessing you are here to so many of us, as I continue to learn and be impressed with you’re shared knowledge and capabilities to remember the many different categories of the M-70, that most of us wished we could remember. 
Don’t stop on any account, and please don’t post less!
Tony
January 8, 2025
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Tedk said
Hello Adam,
Front sight is not correct, should be a Redfield 254 full gold bead that will set you back $400.00 – $500.00
The barrel had to be drilled to attach that Stith front scope base, a better option would have been the Stith base that uses the rear dovetail
Thanks Ted, The whole point of stith mounts, from the little research I just did, was they were no drill. Crazy someone would take a super grade and d&t a couple holes 3/8” behind the dovetail. Think it could be a rebarrel?
November 5, 2014
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Hi Midwest-
The gun looks promising… Depending on your perspective…
On quick glance, it’s a pretty correct pre-war 257 ROBERTS Super Grade. Many of these are “upgrades” and this one may be also. The front sight is a Lyman 31W, which was the correct front sight on M70 Standard Grade rifles before 1940-41. So maybe that tells you something… 
OTOH… It is not uncommon for people to scavenge the original Redfield full gold front sight from a legit Super Grade they’re selling (especially an altered one). That way they can score the extra $$$ the sight alone will bring…
The Stith mount is interesting… It’s certainly true that Stith’s “claim to fame” was the No-Drill mount. But if a gun was sent TO THEM to have a scope installed they would (if requested) drill the barrel and use a special block for the front dovetail. Just look at their period brochures!!! It’s kind of like G&H side mounts… The ones they sold over the counter had exposed screws attaching it to the receiver using five (!!!) holes in the left side of the receiver. But the ones they installed themselves were often the “blind” variety (no exposed screw heads).
So to me it looks like the gun has a Stith mount installed by M.L. Stith of Austin TX (assuming that there are ZERO holes on top of the bridge). That may or may not be an unacceptable modification…
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
December 27, 2024
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Wondering if someone can post a picture of this “original Redfield full gold front sight” – curious to what that looks like
Dan #67288
August 27, 2014
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Deg said
Wondering if someone can post a picture of this “original Redfield full gold front sight” – curious to what that looks like
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
November 5, 2014
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Dan-
Second from left… Prior to 1952, Model 70 Super Grades with standard contour barrels used the 0.310″ tall Redfield 254 full gold bead, just as Standard Grade rifles used a 0.310″ tall silver (tinned) bead Winchester 103C… After 1952-53 this changed to a 0.360″ tall Redfield 255 (third from left) or Winchester 103E…
The Redfield sights are stamped “Redfield” on top where you can see it and usually have the numerical “254” or “255” code stamped under the dovetail…
Hope this helps,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
December 27, 2024
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Louis Luttrell said
Dan-
Second from left… Prior to 1952, Model 70 Super Grades with standard contour barrels used the 0.310″ tall Redfield 254 full gold bead, just as Standard Grade rifles used a 0.310″ tall silver (tinned) bead Winchester 103C… After 1952-53 this changed to a 0.360″ tall Redfield 255 (third from left) or Winchester 103E…The Redfield sights are stamped “Redfield” on top where you can see it and usually have the numerical “254” or “255” code stamped under the dovetail…
Hope this helps,
Lou
that is great! Thanks Lou!!
Dan #67288
January 8, 2025
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So I watched this one shortly after reading this thread and I guess it wasn’t a surprise what it brought, but it was a lot more than I would pay now that this thread exists. I mean the title says UPGRADED. I understand 220 is a collectible, and still relevant caliber. The rest of the description leans to a 90% gun. However, if it was upgraded, it’s not original. Am I missing something? Ria price was 2666 so over 3k after taxes and shipping.
There was also this one in 22 hornet. So I would assume they were “upgraded “ because they’re in collectible calibers.
-Adam
January 20, 2023
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I have a 1948 Winchester Model 70, original caliber unknown, that was “upgraded to Super Grade configuration” by replacing its original stock with a post-1953 Super Grade stock, disposing of its original barrel and installing a new 26′ sightless, varmint weight, SAKO barrel chambered for the (then wildcat) 22-250 cartridge. (In the Fifties, SAKO barrels were prized for their accuracy and the company offered a line of unchambered barrels in various profiles and calibers to custom gunmakers.)
In excellent condition, including a fine Leupold VariX II 3-9 Scope in Leupold rings and one piece base, I bought it off a consignment rack for $700 a couple of years ago.
That’s a lot closer to reality than what those two sold for, I think, but its a free country.
“Buy the gun, not the auction literature.”
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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