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March 31, 2009
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Is the. 603″ the rim diameter or the head diameter? Head is just above the rim. Same for the .476″. Is it at the mouth of the neck diameter? Looks like the cast may have gotten into the lands?
45-70 is .480″ at the mouth of the neck. Head diameter is .505″. Rim diameter is .608″. Case length is 2.105″.
March 31, 2009
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kevindpm61 said
I know that you mentioned that, Bert. This makes for an interesting issue going forward with rebarreling this rifle. We don’t know anything about the barrel that is on the rifle presently. The bore looks too good to be original and it has no Winchester markings. The Cody letter gives no information about the original caliber.
It wouldn’t state the caliber unless it was something different than 45-70.
November 19, 2006
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Unless the rifle originally came in some cartridge other than .45-70, I wouldn’t expect the chambering to mentioned in the museum letter. If it was chambered in something other than .45-70, I would expect it to be noted.
November 7, 2015
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Kevin-
In my humble opinion a 43 caliber wildcat based on the 45-70, a custom barrel (among other alterations) and the absence of an indication of a non-standard chambering all fit together nicely. Maybe not what you were hoping for but my guess is you have an interesting custom version of the Hotchkiss. I’d like to see some pics before you send it off to let Mark work his magic on it.
Mike
November 19, 2006
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I’m completely unfamiliar with the operation of the Hotchkiss. Here’s Ian from Forgotten Weapons shooting one. I was not aware that the trigger had to be pulled to release the first round up to the bolt. This is a 49 second video:
October 14, 2024
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Thanks for all your input. .47.6 mouth, .509 head and .603 rim. I knew that the rifle was worked on before. I thought that it might have been chambered for a standard cartridge…… I didn’t think about a straight wall wildcat.
I will have Mark convert the rifle back to 45-70 with a 28-inch barrel. He was going to be looking at a high condition original military rifle the other day to take notes.
What additional pictures would you like to see?
October 14, 2024
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Ian is right about pulling the trigger to release a round from the mag. The other option would be to simply load a cartridge in the chamber after filling the mag.
November 19, 2006
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I stated I’ve never owned a Hotchkiss rifle but I am not unfamiliar with big bore bolt action tubular magazine rifles. As we know, Winchester had competitors.
In the Remington Keene line, here is a .45-70 and a .43 Spanish (the .45-70 is the carbine; the .43 Spanish has the sling swivels):
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One of the interesting things in comparing the Hotchkiss to the Keene is the speed of operation. This is where Winchester has Remington beat. The Keene requires that you manually cock the hammer after each bolt cycle. Kind of odd. I would have thought it wouldn’t have been that difficult to design the action such that the hammer is cocked each time the bolt is cycled?
October 14, 2024
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Thanks for sharing the pics of your Keene’s Steve. They look to be in excellent condition.
The mid to later 1800’s is a very interesting time in small arms development. My collecting interest has gravitated towards antique/ vintage bolt action hunting rifles. When I was younger, I was all about military firearms. As I have grown older, I like the sporting rifles because I can take them into the woods and use them for hunting. I get a lot of satisfaction hunting with these old girls.
November 7, 2015
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Feel free to ignore my requests for additional pics, I’d forgotten about the seller’s excellent pics in the OP….unless of course something interesting turned up upon inspection. I enjoyed the old-school look of the stock, you have some tough choices to make.
Mike
October 14, 2024
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At this point, my thoughts are to case harden the receiver, fit a correct style butt plate, and replace the barrel with one in 45-70 that duplicates the length and contour.
October 14, 2024
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I’m trying to figure out how to get/ or make a correct style butt plate for this rifle. I’ve looked at the N.C. Ordinance catalog at their reproductions. They sell a “spurred” plate for the Model 97, however, it is smaller than the stock dimensions. They also make an oversized Model 12 plate that is without a spur.
I’m wondering if I could Frankenstein the 2 plates in order to have something to make a mold. N.C. Ordinance told me that they would need an actual plate to make a mold.
Thoughts?
October 14, 2024
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I’ve been in contact with Mark Douglas about working on this rifle. I’ll be boxing and shipping her out to him for restoration work. I’ve never had a firearm professionally restored before, so this is new territory for me.
I’m anxious to see the receiver in case colors and to have a 28 inch properly marked barrel installed. I think that this rifle is going to look stunning.
I was able to source a NOS cocking piece. All the Hotchkiss rifles that I’ve seen pictures of have a knurled surface to the cocking piece. My cocking piece has circular grooves around the knob. Jim Curlovic had mentioned this difference to me when we discussed the rifle. I decided to find a replacement…… just in case.
I know that I will have fun working on load development for the rifle. I cast my own 405 gr. bullets that are amazingly accurate in my Miroku high wall in 45-70. I’ll need to work on either black powder loads or safe reduced loads in smokeless for this old girl.
October 14, 2024
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The rifle is on her way to Wyoming Armory!
June 1, 2023
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I hope Mark will make a video of the work; it would be great to see!
BRP
October 14, 2024
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I think that he intends to do a video. I told him that he can put as many rounds down her as he cares to.
December 9, 2002
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Great choice going with Mark.
I can’t wait to see it completed. A video would be a nice treat! 
Anthony
October 14, 2024
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I’m anxious to see what Mark and his gang can do for this rifle, Before I shipped the rifle out, I managed to take some pictures of her in the daylight. Thought that I would share them with you all.
November 19, 2006
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Great photos of a great rifle. I can see why you are so excited about it. The wood is gorgeous. I think it will really pop when that wood is offset by beautiful case colors. Add in an octagon barrel and it will be quite the show.
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