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In Julia’s upcomming auction, three 1 of 1000 73’s are listed.
Must say i have never had the chance to hold one of these rifle’s, but im keen to learn about them.
This one…..https://jamesdjulia.com/item/52692-1-397/
from my limited knowledge, looks to have a few question marks.
1, the broken lower tang and renumbered serial number is not pictured.
2, “the one of one thousand” marking looks to be a bit off, (so to speak)
3, is not this rifle to early for the cartridge lifter to be CAL marked.
4, starting price of 30K seems a little low compared to others ive seen listed.
Just trying to learn, and appreciate your knowledge and comments.
The price estimate reflects the problem with the serial number.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Julia’s has some of the best gun experts setting the estimates prices, $30,000 to $50,000 means the gun has problems. If it was honest they would estimate $200,000. T/R
One would think this respected auction company woulod state the issue’s. Or better still, dont take it on if it is not legit.
They are in the business of selling guns. When guns get to that level the buyer needs his own expert. If a One of One Thousand does not have the original lower tang and serial number you must assume there is another one with the same serial number. If the gun was restored they usually make a new barrel, the original barrel is never thrown away. Which gun is a One of One Thousand, the one with the original lower tang, the one with the original barrel, or neither. Provenance of the gun matters. T/R
November 7, 2015
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They’re in the business of selling high end guns, to continue in that business they need to earn and maintain a good reputation for honesty and credibility. I feel pretty sure they work very hard to provide accurate descriptions and minimize mistakes. I agree that a buyer needs to know what he’s doing but I doubt very seriously that Julia’s would try to deceive a buyer. Looks to me like they addressed the issues with this gun fairly.
Mike
The carrier block caliber marking is right on the borderline. According to Pirkle, the calibers started being marked on the block around serial number 30,000.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
TXGunNut said
They’re in the business of selling high end guns, to continue in that business they need to earn and maintain a good reputation for honesty and credibility. I feel pretty sure they work very hard to provide accurate descriptions and minimize mistakes. I agree that a buyer needs to know what he’s doing but I doubt very seriously that Julia’s would try to deceive a buyer. Looks to me like they addressed the issues with this gun fairly.
Mike
There’s no such thing as a completely honest used car salesman. The worst ones will outright deceive you and the best ones will always interpret a dubious area in a manner that is most favorable to them.
In that vein, just got in a 19th Century vintage Winchester from a reputable dealer whose listing included the following: “Barrel and tube with blue and plum patina mixed evenly. Excellent stock and forend with the original finish. Perfect working order and very good bore. With factory letter.” The wood has been lightly sanded and a nicely done but gaudily shiny coat of lacquer has been applied, the set screw is a stainless steel replacement and the bore has the lands pretty much worn off and some light pitting. And the forend has a 4″ split in it with a sloppy bedding compound repair, which they did tell me about over the phone. The factory letter was not included and they did commit to getting one and sending it on to me.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Thanks for the replys. A friend out hear in oz has phoned Julia’s being interrested in the gun.
He has asked them several time for photo’s of the lower tang and serial number, but they wont email any pictures saying the gun is right.
I guess what I want to say is do you all believe the gun is a 1 of 1000 or a fake, to keep it in simple terms, if not a 1 of 1000 why auction it as one.
thanks
tony
Tony. R said
Thanks for the replys. A friend out hear in oz has phoned Julia’s being interrested in the gun.He has asked them several time for photo’s of the lower tang and serial number, but they wont email any pictures saying the gun is right.
I guess what I want to say is do you all believe the gun is a 1 of 1000 or a fake, to keep it in simple terms, if not a 1 of 1000 why auction it as one.
thanks
tony
For what they are asking they should take the time to provide the photos. My rule of thumb is to always “screen out”, never “screen in”. There is a reason for their not posting a photo of the tang after they admitted there was something wrong with it.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
The gun has been around for quite a while with the messed up serial number. In 94 it showed up in the Gordon survey with the problem serial number noted. The auction company put a low estimate on it and if they thought it was real it would be a lot higher.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
From what I saw of the lower tang it was clamped in a vise without padding so that tells me it was done by a garage gunsmith. Any professional gunsmith would know enough to use a padded vise.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
When Jim Gorden first published his two volume book set he included, ‘Survey of Winchester Model 1873’s Number 1″. He intended to update the Survey in the future but never did. In that book, ( number 1), on page 22 in the notes section Jim writes “1 OF 1000? SER. RENUMBERED”. The question mark is not what i call good provenance. T/R
Towards the end of the listing’s write-up there is a casual reference to the “restoration”. “Edges of the stock around the top & bottom tangs were reduced during the restoration process.” If you look closely at the 4th and 5th photos, the wood at the wrist has been sanded down so severely that just a little more and one could see daylight under the upper tang.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Yes we noticed that amoung other ?????.flags, which prompted my friend to call Julia’s for more info and photo’s, but they are still refusing to provide photo’s.
says a lot for the company especially when you live 25000 miles from the auction.
1873man said
The price estimate reflects the problem with the serial number.Bob
I agree!
Having said that, while I feel both Julia’s and Rock Island estimates are fairly close to actual values they do seem to have different estimating philosophies.
Julia’s seems to estimate low as they feel it initiates more interest/participation in the bidding and they like reporting how much their auctions bring ‘over estimate’.
Rock Island on the other hand seems to estimate on the high side feeling higher estimates initiates higher bids.
I have requested photos several times regarding specific issues with auction rifles and have always received them promptly.
In fact, I usually received way more than I’ve requested.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
Kevin Jones said
I agree!
I have requested photos several times regarding specific issues with auction rifles and have always received them promptly.
In fact, I usually received way more than I’ve requested.
That’s an interesting and helpful observation, Kevin, especially in view that they wouldn’t send the requested photos of the repaired area on this particular rifle.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
It is wise to keep in mind that the description usually says more about the rifle by what it does NOT say than it does by what is said. Check out the inscription real closely and compare it to published photos of other legitimate model 1 of 1000 rifles!
Rick Hill
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
Rick Hill said
It is wise to keep in mind that the description usually says more about the rifle by what it does NOT say than it does by what is said. Check out the inscription real closely and compare it to published photos of other legitimate model 1 of 1000 rifles!Rick Hill
Excellent eye!
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
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