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I have heard people here say the front sight base on carbines was a separate piece attached to the barrel. My friend got an 1894 SRC made 1914, the barrel had been shortened 1/2″ for some reason and the tube shortened 2″. Looked terrible, so he decided to make it a 16″ gun. He wanted to reuse the front sight base, so he heated it red hot and tried to remove it, no luck. He finally cut the sight base off at the barrel, the base was obviously a part of the barrel. I looked at it closely, and it was obvious the barrel formed right into the base as one piece. Anyone have a different experience with front sight bases?
Online
What you heard is correct. For the most part, the Model 1894 SRCs used a silver-soldered sight base. There was a period of time when they were integral to the barrel, but it was short lived. The barrel has a small shallow hole directly under that base of the sight block, and the sight block itself has a corresponding pin that seats down into the barrel. The base was then silver soldered to the barrel before bluing.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
What you heard is correct. For the most part, the Model 1894 SRCs used a silver-soldered sight base. There was a period of time when they were integral to the barrel, but it was short lived. The barrel has a small shallow hole directly under that base of the sight block, and the sight block itself has a corresponding pin that seats down into the barrel. The base was then silver soldered to the barrel before bluing.Bert
Bert –
Do you think you would be able to tell if a front sight base was integral to the barrel just by looking at it?
steve004 said
Bert –
Do you think you would be able to tell if a front sight base was integral to the barrel just by looking at it?
Yes… the milling pattern used to create the sight block is easy enough to spot with the naked eye (or good clear close-up pictures).
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Yes… the milling pattern used to create the sight block is easy enough to spot with the naked eye (or good clear close-up pictures).
Thanks Bert. And, just 1894 carbines, or were 1892 carbines included during that same period?
steve004 said
Thanks Bert. And, just 1894 carbines, or were 1892 carbines included during that same period?
Don’t know… I typically do not pay much attention to the the Model 1892 Carbines.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
steve004 said
Thanks Bert. And, just 1894 carbines, or were 1892 carbines included during that same period?
One more question, about what year/serial number range?
steve004 said
One more question, about what year/serial number range?
Again, I do not know the answer to that question. It is my belief that it was after WW I, and only for a few years. The block style carbine front sight was discontinued in April/May 1932 (with the introduction of the Proof Steel barrels w/ramp style front sight). That only leaves about a 12-year period in which Winchester would have briefly tried integral sight blocks.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Yes… the milling pattern used to create the sight block is easy enough to spot with the naked eye (or good clear close-up pictures).
Bert – I took a close-up of the front sight on a circa 1923 carbine. Do you think this is a sight made integral to the barrel or has it been soldered on? Thanks.
steve004 said
Bert – I took a close-up of the front sight on a circa 1923 carbine. Do you think this is a sight made integral to the barrel or has it been soldered on? Thanks.
Stteve,
Back the camera up about 6″, and focus on the base of the sight block and the barrel directly surrounding it. The lighting in your picture is not good. Take the picture outdoors in natural light.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Steve,
I borrowed these from Rob Kassab’s website.
The first SRC appears to have a milled integral sight block;
https://www.rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1894/M94-0817342/details.shtml
This second SRC definitely has an integral front sight block;
https://www.rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1894/M94-0897060/18.JPG
This third SRC definitely has a silver-soldered sight block;
https://www.rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1894/M94-0336491/details.shtml
Based on the serial numbers on the two SRCs with an integral sight block, the date range is at least December 1915 – January 1920.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
steve004 said
Bert – I took a close-up of the front sight on a circa 1923 carbine. Do you think this is a sight made integral to the barrel or has it been soldered on? Thanks.
Just took another photo –
Stteve,
Back the camera up about 6″, and focus on the base of the sight block and the barrel directly surrounding it. The lighting in your picture is not good. Take the picture outdoors in natural light.
Bert
Here’s another photo that I had from earlier. I think the light is a little better. I just looked at the links to Rob’s site. I’m still not certain but I am leaning toward mine being an integral barrel sight.
steve004 said
Here’s another photo that I had from earlier. I think the light is a little better. I just looked at the links to Rob’s site. I’m still not certain but I am leaning toward mine being an integral barrel sight.
Steve,
Take a clean side view picture of the sight base and barrel. From the rear view picture, it looks like it might be integral, but I cannot positively tell.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I can tell I need to not quit my day job in favor or making a living taking photos. Zoomed in a bit:
Steve,
It looks like your Carbine has an integral front sight base. You mentioned that it was a 1923 production gun… have you looked to see if the barrel is date stamped?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Steve,It looks like your Carbine has an integral front sight base. You mentioned that it was a 1923 production gun… have you looked to see if the barrel is date stamped?
Bert
I’ve not had the forend off it. Funny how we collectors can focus (sometimes obsess) on such very small details.
steve004 said
Bert H. said
Steve,It looks like your Carbine has an integral front sight base. You mentioned that it was a 1923 production gun… have you looked to see if the barrel is date stamped?
Bert
I’ve not had the forend off it. Funny how we collectors can focus (sometimes obsess) on such very small details.
“sometime obsess” ?? It has been my experience that it “obsesses” most of us for far too much time!!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
“sometime obsess” ?? It has been my experience that it “obsesses” most of us for far too much time!!
Indeed Bert. It certainly describes me and how far too much of my time is spent. I was being charitable toward others in saying, “sometimes” as perhaps all of us are not so deeply afflicted? What say the rest of you out there?
On this carbine sight detail, in my (obsessive) mind, this constitutes a variation. Sort of like with M94 carbines, we have the flat band variation. This is the, “integral barrel sight variation.” I find it very intriguing from a manufacturing point of view. It seems it was extra hassle to make it this way. And why did they start doing it? They had sure made a lot of carbines prior to this method. Were the silver-soldered sights falling off? Why switch to something that was more of a hassle unless there was a need? I’m getting ahead of myself. Maybe it was less involved than the process of silver-soldering the sight to the barrel? I remain curious if some M1892 carbines were also done this way. Michael must be on vacation – I haven’t seen him around – I’ll bet he will know.
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