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I’d like honest opinions on this gun, it’s being presented as a factory engraved Model 70, in box with label indicating engraving. I’ll just say I have concerns as to it’s legitamacy, but I’d sure appreciate other opinions and would love to hear it is correct.
thanks in advance,
Paul
Paul,
Just my opinion… it was not factory engraved, and the box has been faked,
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Paul,
Just my opinion… it was not factory engraved, and the box has been faked,
Bert
Paul,
I agree with Bert.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
“N. Hartliep” was exceptionally proud of his work to sign it this conspicuous way! Few pro. engravers do more than add their initials or logo in some inconspicuous location. So I doubt there was any intent to deceive when the work was done; that happened after the gun fell into the hands of a crooked dealer with these two ink stamps.
Online
The Engraving is still “In the White” or freshly engraved. No finish has been applied to it. Usually you at least see where the engraving has been blued when trying to pass something off as original work and it wouldn’t be signed either. Eventually the bare metal where the engraving was done will begin to rust.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
November 5, 2014
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Hi Paul-
Regrettably not factory engraved, and to my knowledge Neil Hartliep was not a factory engraver. Maverick is correct that Winchester did not generally permit their factory engravers to “sign” their work (even with initials) except in certain occasions where the customer requested the piece be signed. At least that is my recollection of what Pauline Muerrle has said about factory custom shop practice.
The box label is fake.
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Paul, I agree with others, not factory work. All the factory engraving I have seen was blued subsequent to engraving. Here is a picture of one of my factory engraved 52’s. This work was done by Nick Kusmit. As you can see, it was blued after engraving.
Steve
Thank you to everyone for their opinions, they bolstered what I suspected. I really appreciate the help.
Neil Hartliep was an accomplished engraver while living in Fairmont, MN where I met him. Some of his work can be seen in early 60’s-70’s Gun Digests. He passed away back in the 90’s in Arizona. I doubt that Neil even engraved that model 70. His work was much better than that.
This is a good opportunity to learn a little about fake Model 70s. A M70 this late in production (1963) would likely have the late red, black and yellow box, not the earlier plain brown box.
The end label contains a few clues indicating it’s fake–but let’s not provide that information so the fakers can correct the problem. Also, it looks like they stuck a new looking end label on a worn looking box.
Then there’s the unblued engraving–a real deal-breaker, plus the supposed engraver’s name (not a factory procedure).
This shows how prevalent faking is these days if something as common as a very late production 243 Featherweight can acquire modest engraving and a phony box and be advertised as factory original.
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