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September 22, 2011
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By date, and by serial number, precise date and/or serial number, which may or may not be the same.
Very roughly, it’s circa or precisely 1902 and circa or precisely serial number 125,400.
September 22, 2011
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Here’s a letter on an earlier Winchester Model 1886 rifle in .33 Winchester, but by no means the earliest by serial number and unlikely to be so by date, either:
WINCHESTER MODEL 1886 SERIAL NUMBER 126186
Serial number application date not available
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 33
Barrel Type: Round
Trigger: Plain
1/2 Magazine
Takedown
Received in warehouse on September 15, 1902
Shipped from warehouse on September 20, 1902. Order number 153254
April 15, 2005
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In my survey, I have 121533 as the lowest serial number documented thus far, but I do not have the date it was received in the warehouse. John Madl found that serial numbers 125403 & 125406 were the first recorded 33 WCF rifles received in the warehouse (on April 3rd, 1902). Because guns were not assembled in serial number order, there were at least a few dozen factory original 33 WCF rifles between 121533 and 125403. Currently, I have found (8) rifles before s/n 125403.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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mrcvs said
Here’s a letter on an earlier Winchester Model 1886 rifle in .33 Winchester, but by no means the earliest by serial number and unlikely to be so by date, either:
WINCHESTER MODEL 1886 SERIAL NUMBER 126186
Serial number application date not available
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 33
Barrel Type: Round
Trigger: Plain
1/2 Magazine
Takedown
Received in warehouse on September 15, 1902
Shipped from warehouse on September 20, 1902. Order number 153254
I have (23) 33 WCF rifles in my survey with serial numbers < 126186
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 22, 2011
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Bert H. said
mrcvs said
Here’s a letter on an earlier Winchester Model 1886 rifle in .33 Winchester, but by no means the earliest by serial number and unlikely to be so by date, either:
WINCHESTER MODEL 1886 SERIAL NUMBER 126186
Serial number application date not available
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 33
Barrel Type: Round
Trigger: Plain
1/2 Magazine
Takedown
Received in warehouse on September 15, 1902
Shipped from warehouse on September 20, 1902. Order number 153254
I have (23) 33 WCF rifles in my survey with serial numbers < 126186
Bert
I’m surprised it’s not many greater than 23, as, by this time, most production was in .45-70 and most of the early other black powder cartridges had fallen out of favor.
April 15, 2005
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mrcvs said
Bert H. said
mrcvs said
Here’s a letter on an earlier Winchester Model 1886 rifle in .33 Winchester, but by no means the earliest by serial number and unlikely to be so by date, either:
WINCHESTER MODEL 1886 SERIAL NUMBER 126186
Serial number application date not available
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 33
Barrel Type: Round
Trigger: Plain
1/2 Magazine
Takedown
Received in warehouse on September 15, 1902
Shipped from warehouse on September 20, 1902. Order number 153254
I have (23) 33 WCF rifles in my survey with serial numbers < 126186
Bert
I’m surprised it’s not many greater than 23, as, by this time, most production was in .45-70 and most of the early other black powder cartridges had fallen out of favor.
The (23) is simply what I have personally surveyed. I suspect there are many more yet to be found.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 22, 2011
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[email protected] said
Ok,what does non R&R mean ?
Returned to the factory for repair or refurbishment, although I think it’s an abbreviation for “Return & Repair”.
What was the issue? Was there a common problem with the 1886 in 33 win?
November 7, 2015
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[email protected] said
What was the issue? Was there a common problem with the 1886 in 33 win?
If I’m not mistaken the OP wishes to exclude rifles originally chambered for 45-70 that may have been returned to be re-barreled for the “new” 33 WCF round.
Mike
Is there any way to tell other than a Cody letter if one has been rebarreled such as a factory stamp, etc?
September 22, 2011
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TXGunNut said
[email protected] said
What was the issue? Was there a common problem with the 1886 in 33 win?
If I’m not mistaken the OP wishes to exclude rifles originally chambered for 45-70 that may have been returned to be re-barreled for the “new” 33 WCF round.
Mike
Or originally chambered previously for any other round. There are actually a few antique (pre 1899) Winchester 1886s in .33 Winchester because of this.
November 7, 2015
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mrcvs said
TXGunNut said
[email protected] said
What was the issue? Was there a common problem with the 1886 in 33 win?
If I’m not mistaken the OP wishes to exclude rifles originally chambered for 45-70 that may have been returned to be re-barreled for the “new” 33 WCF round.
Mike
Or originally chambered previously for any other round. There are actually a few antique (pre 1899) Winchester 1886s in .33 Winchester because of this.
You’re right, the couple I’ve heard about were originally 45-70. Other conversions were certainly possible, especially if they didn’t involve bolt replacement or modification.
Mike
April 15, 2005
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[email protected] said
What was the issue? Was there a common problem with the 1886 in 33 win?
No, it was just simply a case of people sending their older Model 1886 black powder cartridge rifles back to factory for a new barrel in 33 WCF smokeless powder. There were countless dozens of such rifles recorded in the records as being returned & reworked for that purpose.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
February 17, 2022
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Can’t help much here, but will throw it out there, as my earliest 86 in 33 is #128934. Received December 24, 1903. No R&R. must have been a Christmas gift, Was to me!
I am looking at serial number 14919 in 33 Winchester. Obviously not the original barrel. How much does this reduce the value. The gun looks brand new. I suspect it was reconditioned when it went back for the barrel change.
April 15, 2005
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[email protected] said
I am looking at serial number 14919 in 33 Winchester. Obviously not the original barrel. How much does this reduce the value. The gun looks brand new. I suspect it was reconditioned when it went back for the barrel change.
The important question is does it letter with a post-1902 R&R ? If it does not have a R&R entry in the ledger records, the negative impact to the value is significantly greater than it would be if there is a corroborating R&R for it.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
February 17, 2022
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Not sure about value as prices are all over the place. I do agree with Bert, if there isn’t an R&R after 1902 on the letter I would run. The 33 wcf wasn’t ava prior to that. I personally have seen a couple 86’s that had antique status via the serial number with 33 barrels. But none had documentation to prove they were re barreled at the factory. Personally I stay away from them. Especially if they have blued receivers. JMO.
