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Item #71 in upcoming Amoskeag Auction Co. Nov. 17 & 18
Is this a possible example that Winchester “did” refinish firearms? I have posted my 1892’s in the past only to be told that they are “just re-barreled and refinished” with no definitive answer as to the probability of whether or not Winchester did the work. Is the work done by Winchester classified as “just re-blued or refinished”? I do understand that the gun would not classified as “Original”, but the finisher should account for something. RDB
Roger,
Winchester did refinish and repair guns. Years ago I owned a 73 that was factory refinished. They would “X” out the old assemble number and stamp a new one was one way to tell. Their refinishing wasn’t perfect like a new gun, you could see some old rust pits if they were too deep. Finish and color was correct if done in the same era.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I am aware of the ‘early’ Winchester refinishing and the X-ing out of the serial numbers. I am questing the 1930s thru the 1950s time period. Is there any known provenance regarding this era? I have also encountered early Model 1885 rifles that have barrels in post 1938 calibers. 218 Bee, 219 Zipper, etc.. RDB
I have my dad’s 1927 Nickel steel Model 12 Pigeon grade that we sent back for a refinish in 1962. Still have all the paperwork for the job as well.
Steve
Thank you for the reply. I understand the purist’s negative view on any refinished gun no matter who did the work. But, I feel that any work done by Winchester should be credited as such. Winchester did a lot of things that weren’t documented and that interests me. Money was tight at times and even the Mighty Winchester suffered and skimped on occasion. ANYTHING WINCHESTER gets my attention. I despise fake and altered Winchesters, but try to keep an open mind to those rare and unusual items that have gone unrecognized and have slipped by even the trained eye. I am guilty of buying some questionable items that have proven to be fake or altered, but I do have some goodies too. I have an 1892 carbine Ser. 765249 with the bolt peep, no sling ring, ramp front sight and a 1938 barrel date. And yes, it seems to have been refinished, but has a white muzzle. Not as pristine as the auction rifle, but very nice. Some Winchesters were actually used.
RDB
November 7, 2015
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I agree that early Winchesters were indeed tools and were intended to be used. OTOH many of the “purists” you mentioned desire original guns and feel that a gun is only original once. Some folks (like me!) prefer a gun with character, maybe partly because I won’t shell out the bucks for pristine examples. Maybe certain factory repairs included refinishing, would be interesting if this rifle were an example of Winchester’s customer service.
Mike
Rodger,
While it certainly looks like top-notch work, there is No possible way to know if it was Winchester who reworked it. One thing in the auction description jumped out at me as not being accurate though… Winchester actually introduced the No. 98C bolt-peep sight at the exact same time as the 218 Bee cartridge in late 1936 for the Model 65. By the year 1948, Winchester was only assembling parts clean-up Model 65 rifles, as regular production had ended in January 1946. It would be interesting to see what the date on the bottom of the barrel is… my guess is it is from the late 1930s.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks Steve, Mike & Bert,
It is so frustrating to believe in the originality of an item and no way to prove or disprove what is correct. I know that more than once I have been embarrassed by being misinformed and using that misinformation to state an ‘incorrect fact’. It made me feel dishonest and I can’t accept that feeling. I wasn’t brought up that way and I cannot tolerate dishonesty. RDB
November 7, 2015
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Certainly no shortage of misinformation or people willing to believe and repeat it. What bothers me is when somebody knows better and takes advantage of the situation. My favorite gaffe is misremembering stuff or having a question come up that I know I read about recently…just not sure where.
Had a guy several weeks ago whisper to a buddy that a rifle on my table couldn’t possibly be an original pre-64 because it had a “plastic” buttplate. Not so many years ago I believed that as well.
Mike
I just sold a rifle in Reno which was among 3 i took in trade. It was a refinished 1886 rifle with an antique serial number and only the receiver and forearm cap redone in case color. It was a muted color and like it should be over all the years and not being stored in a safe. The wood was excellent with a few dings and marks expected. When I received it in the trade I had to point out I thought it had been refinished, and the seller acknowledged he thought so too. The price tag did not identify the rifle as refinished.
My price tag was marked as refinished, and the gun was displayed next to an original priced 4 times higher.
My point is the buyer knowingly bought a beautifully refinished gun and negotiated a price good for us both. He was very happy to have that gun and use it. An 1886 rifle, octagon barrel in 45-90, case colored and great wood for $6000.
There are great guns out there that are refinished and can be bought at a fraction of the cost of an original, and be used for hunting or whatever. I too want to be open and honest when selling guns, and wish more vendors would do the same, rather than praying for an untrained eye to gobble it up and not ask questions to seek out the truth. I know that’s an expectation that is not going to happen very much. I’m both a “purest” and a realistic buyer, but need some help at times .
That’s the nature of our hobby !
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