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There are quite a few high condition, interesting, etc. pieces coming up in the RIA premier auction. I thought this one was close to the top of the heap. Any speculations how high it will go? I think this question requires quite the crystal ball given the turbulent times we are living in and how fast things are changing.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/81/3014/winchester-deluxe-model-1894-rifle
November 7, 2015
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Looks like they’ve possibly sold it before, reckon we could see what that hammer price was? No idea why they mention the Madis date when they have a Cody letter. Pure speculation, as noted, but I don’t see it making their estimate.
Mike
Blatant, poorly executed slight-of-hand.
“Never mind the date on the letter…look over here at the Madis data!”
Pretty rifle though.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
Madis letters are a warning to me. Why does a gun need a letter like this? Might be a good gun though?
This rifle does look familiar to me. I wouldn’t doubt RIA has sold it before, I just can’t recall for sure. Interesting to use the Madis dates as even with the Madis date (i.e. 1899) it doesn’t meet antique status. I don’t think there is a Madis letter with this one, rather the Madis reference is just to his manufactured date range. I agree with Chuck however as a Madis letter often suggests a need to explain something. Of course, one common scenario is when a rifle is beyond the letterable range, the presence of special order features, etc., can easily be cast in doubt. Some people (e.g. some buyers) take great stock in a Madis letter. On a similar note, many people presume that any rifle he pictured in his book can automatically be pronounced as all original. This is not the case.
Chuck said
Bert needs Lot #3151. Supposed to be Browning’s Patent gun.
It is an original Browning Single Shot rifle. That stated, the condition is a bit on the “rough” side.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
steve004 said
There are quite a few high condition, interesting, etc. pieces coming up in the RIA premier auction. I thought this one was close to the top of the heap. Any speculations how high it will go? I think this question requires quite the crystal ball given the turbulent times we are living in and how fast things are changing.https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/81/3014/winchester-deluxe-model-1894-rifle
I believe that tt is highly unlikely to come anywhere near close to the low-end of the estimated price range. I suspect it will top out in the $22K – $28K range.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
steve004 said
This rifle does look familiar to me. I wouldn’t doubt RIA has sold it before, I just can’t recall for sure. Interesting to use the Madis dates as even with the Madis date (i.e. 1899) it doesn’t meet antique status. I don’t think there is a Madis letter with this one, rather the Madis reference is just to his manufactured date range. I agree with Chuck however as a Madis letter often suggests a need to explain something. Of course, one common scenario is when a rifle is beyond the letterable range, the presence of special order features, etc., can easily be cast in doubt. Some people (e.g. some buyers) take great stock in a Madis letter. On a similar note, many people presume that any rifle he pictured in his book can automatically be pronounced as all original. This is not the case.
The Cody letter is addressed to Rock Island Auction company, and dated August 29, 2017, so they could have sold it back in 2017?
tionesta1 said
The Cody letter is addressed to Rock Island Auction company, and dated August 29, 2017, so they could have sold it back in 2017?
That makes a lot of sense. What other reason could there be for the letter to be addressed to them?
[email protected] said
Bert,I could sell you #178! There’s a pic of it on Browning’s Historic Timeline, on their Website. These were tools, used and over used again and again, like many of the Winchester’s that we love, and are familiar with! Steve, not necessarily Browning’s patent gun, but their first patent sold to Winchester, hence the invention of the Model 1885 Single Shot rifle, that Winchester improved upon!
I’ve never been a Winchester Single-Shot rifle collector, but if I were, I’d have to have one of these 
November 7, 2015
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steve004 said
I’ve never been a Winchester Single-Shot rifle collector, but if I were, I’d have to have one of these
I’m not a Single Shot collector but I feel it is an important part of the Browning and Winchester story. I stuck my toe in the water with a Winder musket awhile back and later lucked into a nice special order 32-40. It takes a bit of patience and probably a bit of luck to find a nice original rifle.
Mike
Bert H. said
It is an original Browning Single Shot rifle. That stated, the condition is a bit on the “rough” side.
Bert
Very rough but historic. Most of the early guns I have seen are in rough shape. I went many years and never saw one. Then a guy showed up at Cody when it was still in the gymnasium with a handful of them.
I collect at least one of each model. But, I do have some multiples and a half dozen 85’s. Don’t tell Bert….
I cannot imagine why RIA states the rifle was made in 1899 per Madis & also displays the factory letter which clearly states 1903.
I don’t think this is an oversight by RIA. I have my own opinion that they take issue with the Validity of the records from CFM which hurts the bottom dollar when you want the earliest date possible.
RickC
RickC said
I cannot imagine why RIA states the rifle was made in 1899 per Madis & also displays the factory letter which clearly states 1903.
I don’t think this is an oversight by RIA. I have my own opinion that they take issue with the Validity of the records from CFM which hurts the bottom dollar when you want the earliest date possible.RickC
Two words… Greed and Dishonesty!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
It looks too good as I see it, and with this in mind, Bert’s estimate seems logical…but logic to deep pockets is often a moot point.
James
jwm94 said
It looks too good as I see it, and with this in mind, Bert’s estimate seems logical…but logic to deep pockets is often a moot point.
James
James – I’m with you on this. It is what I term, “frighteningly nice.” As far as the 1899 reference, I do note they classify it as curio and relic status. And of course, 1899 wouldn’t give it antique status anyway. I suppose their statement is technically correct – 1899 is where the George Madis serial range would place its manufacture. I just find the Madis reference as nonsensical. In the very next sentence of their description, they report that the factory letter provides a 1903 shipment date. Oh well, I am interested to see where it lands as far as hammer price.
steve004 said
James – I’m with you on this. It is what I term, “frighteningly nice.” As far as the 1899 reference, I do note they classify it as curio and relic status. And of course, 1899 wouldn’t give it antique status anyway. I suppose their statement is technically correct – 1899 is where the George Madis serial range would place its manufacture. I just find the Madis reference as nonsensical. In the very next sentence of their description, they report that the factory letter provides a 1903 shipment date. Oh well, I am interested to see where it lands as far as hammer price.
Thanks. I thought I was all alone in my thoughts. Yes, frighteningly nice is a perfect description. It will be interesting to see the hammer price.
James
I have noticed that RIA will state as per Madis for a date that is not pre 1899 elsewhere but when it is pre 1899 as per this site or CFM ( and also presumably per Madis), they state that a firearm is pre 1899 as per CFM. In short, whatever is in THEIR best interest. This also tells me that they place less faith in Madis’ records than in other sources.
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