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Sometimes Winchester used a Oval P marked barrel from stock to re-barrel a gun. Or even used them on on new “special order” guns. Those guns have both the oval P and the PW.
From RIA an example is shown below. Plus I own one identical to this one with known history since shortly before WWII. My dad purchased it at Hudson’s sporting goods in NYC about 1939 or 1940. Gave it too on my 16th birthday over 61 years ago. I have personally seen 5 such guns over the years. All near identical configuration.
Special Order Winchester Model 92 Carbine with Octagon Barrel | Rock Island Auction
I also believe there is lots of variation in how Winchester did things and marked things over the years.
Maverick said
seewin said
Here is a paragraph from a Winchester document dated June 6, 1941. I would think if your 92 was manufactured after May 31, 1913, this should answer your question.
Steve
I don’t doubt the validity, but for my own research and future need to cite said Winchester document. Can you tell me more about said document?
Sincerely,
Maverick
Here is the full document I referenced earlier. This document was also shown in a previous post several years ago.
This document was also shown in a previous post several years ago.
Here is a link to the previous post:
JWA and I previously discussed this particular document and he believes it has been digitized and is now searchable in the McCracken Library Archives at the Buffalo Bill Museum in Cody.
Steve
Online
seewin saidHere is the full document I referenced earlier. This document was also shown in a previous post several years ago.
Here’s what Bert said when I mentioned this 3-yr lapse in applying the mark to BOTH brl & rcvr, or so I believed until rebuked by Bert:
“And that is not a true statement. When Winchester began applying the superposed “WP” proof marking to the center fire guns, it was stamped on both the barrel and receiver frame ring beginning in July 1905. The .22 rim fire rifles were not proof marked until 1908. In all of the many hundreds of factory original Winchesters I have inspected that were manufactured in the years 1905 and later, they have proof mark stamps in both locations.”
This statement by Schwing (quoted by my greatly missed friend, jwm94) was my reason for postulating that the “Cool Ole 94” had been returned to factory:
“After a thorough examination of the factory records, it is possible to see Model 90s with proof marks on the receiver and barrel prior to this date. This is likely because if an early rifle were sent back to the factory to be repaired or refinished after October 1908, then the proof mark would be stamped on the receiver.”
It’s nice to know Winchester policy, but the fact remains they built guns in a factory for profit. Parts were stored in bins, racks, and maybe barrels. First part on the rack might not be the first used. Guns for special orders might be out of sequence. I have seen ledger pages with into warehouse dates varying over a year in one page. Employees are human and make mistakes, every rule has an exception. I want to know the Winchester policy but I tolerate inconsistencies that can occur in a factory. I think parts got misplaced and used out of sequence. When I buy a gun it is not a deal breaker if the mark or feature is slightly before or after the serial number range. T/R
TR said
It’s nice to know Winchester policy, but the fact remains they built guns in a factory for profit. Parts were stored in bins, racks, and maybe barrels. First part on the rack might not be the first used. Guns for special orders might be out of sequence. I have seen ledger pages with into warehouse dates varying over a year in one page. Employees are human and make mistakes, every rule has an exception. I want to know the Winchester policy but I tolerate inconsistencies that can occur in a factory. I think parts got misplaced and used out of sequence. When I buy a gun it is not a deal breaker if the mark or feature is slightly before or after the serial number range. T/R
No, WRA was not building guns for nitpicking collectors of the next century. And would have been incredulous that some could be so dogmatic in their interpretation of company policy. US military collectors with any experience accept that the protocols laid down for inspection & marking were often observed haphazardly because “employees are human and make mistakes, every rule has an exception.” How very true!
Model 92 SRC with double proof on the receiver. From a Jack the Dog auction.
cjs57 said
Model 92 SRC with double proof on the receiver. From a Jack the Dog auction.https://www.gunauction.com/buy/17273880
One thing, at least, this seller has the good sense to know difference between a circle & an oval.
Never done business with this guy but a lot of my military collector friends have.
January 26, 2011
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antler1 said
It’s not common to see the circle p proof on a hexagon barrel either ?
Hexagon barrels are my favorites, extremely rare indeed.
~Gary~
November 7, 2015
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pdog72 said
antler1 said
It’s not common to see the circle p proof on a hexagon barrel either ?
Hexagon barrels are my favorites, extremely rare indeed.
Good point, Gary, can’t recall seeing one.
Mike
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