Log In
Members
Home
Add Reply
Add Topic
Offline
Reading Arthur Pirkle’s “Winchester lever Action Repeating Firearms Volume 3, Models 1895….he states the barrel twist of 1:26 up to serial number 40,000.
Well I have an 1895 w/ serial number in the 30k range, Vintage 1901 that has a 1:12 twist and I’m pretty sure the barrel is original to the rifle.
Barrel marking include 30 U.S. on top of barrel, NICKEL STEEL BARREL ESPECIALLY FOR SMOKELESS (two lines, no dashes), under barrel is VP proof mark.
Was the twist really 1:26 because mine sure isn’t?
Health & Happiness
My bet is that Pirkle was referring to the twist rate for the 38-72 or 40-72 cartridges (or both). Being that they were originally black powder cartridges, the slow twist rate makes sense. As far as I know, the twist rate used for the 30 U.S. (30/40) cartridge was 1:10, and the same twist rate was used for the 30-03 and 30-06. The 1:12 twist rate was used in the Model 1894 for the 30 WCF cartridge. The Model 94/95 hybrid carbines are unique in that they have a 1:10 twist rate for the 30 WCF, due to Winchester using up leftover Model 95 barrels in the year 1928.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
tucotom said
Reading Arthur Pirkle’s “Winchester lever Action Repeating Firearms Volume 3, Models 1895….he states the barrel twist of 1:26 up to serial number 40,000.Well I have an 1895 w/ serial number in the 30k range, Vintage 1901 that has a 1:12 twist and I’m pretty sure the barrel is original to the rifle.
Barrel marking include 30 U.S. on top of barrel, NICKEL STEEL BARREL ESPECIALLY FOR SMOKELESS (two lines, no dashes), under barrel is VP proof mark.
Was the twist really 1:26 because mine sure isn’t?
Pirkle states that the 1:26 was used up to about Ser.# 40000 when it was changed to 1:18. Then there was a gradual change to 1:16 which ran concurrently with the 1:18 to about Ser.# 175000. At about Ser.# 190000 Winchester tried a 1:12 concurrently with the 1:16 until about Ser.# 262000 when they finally standardized the twist at 1:12.
He also states that the Nickel Steel barrel makings were first added about 1905 at Ser.# 50000.
I used my cleaning rod to determine the rifles twist, could well be the barrel is 1:10.
The book is confusing on the twist explaination, never occured to me the author was talking about the older black powder cartridges.
Thanks, once again, Bert for your input.
Health & Happiness
Folks,
Perhaps Brad will add to this or maybe even correct it. However, some of us measured (as best we could) the twist rates of a fair number of 1895’s in the differing calibers. This will be included in the upcoming 1895 book that hopefully will be published yet this calendar year. I can add that my Russian musket was a challenge to determine twist rate as there were sections of the bore that the rifling was weak enough or even missing that the cleaning rod was not even rotated for a short distance. It took a series of efforts in driving a lead slug down the bore ahead of the rod, then averaging the outcomes, for me to say what twist rate my Russian musket was (and at this point I don’t even remember what it was!). As I recall, the “blackpowder” cartridge guns were in very good shape, and the twist rates were consistent and agreed with other data.
As I recall, Brad had written data from “olden” times from some hunting magazine writer, if I recall, that gave the “correct” twist rates for the differing calibers at that point in time. Some of them agreed with what was measured, but seems I recall some did not. Bear in mind, this is from my memory and I am finding it fools me at times now days. The bigger details will remain, the finer details get fuzzy. Bottom line–the upcoming book will provide real, measured twist rates for all of the calibers of 1895’s, and I am betting the date brackets from the serial numbers can be derived or inferred if the rate changed over time.
Tim
Tim Tomlinson and Mark Douglas have been especially helpful in measuring and collecting barrel and bore data for the Model 1895 book. Much of the technical information in the barrel chapter came from measuring actual Model 1895 bores, along with WRACo written references, including Model Room Book entries, Ballistics Lab entries and intra-factory correspondence on standard bore dimensions. Some of the other written references Tim was referring to came from Col. Whelen, JR Mattern, and others.
Rob and I want the book to have information that is beneficial to collectors of other Winchester models too. The section on Winchester’s Provisional and Definitive Proof from the book will be in the next Winchester Collector. There is also more information about the book in the upcoming issue and I will be sure to post a link to our website when it’s ready to go.
Thanks,
Brad
1 Guest(s)
