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November 7, 2015
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1894 sn 160780, sna 10/28/1902 left the warehouse as a 38-55 with an octagon barrel 11/21/1902. No mention of an R&R. (Bert; I was mistaken about that when we talked in Cody). Today it’s a 30WCF, half octagon, half mag. Fit & finish suggest a factory mod but nothing to support it. Markings on the underside of the barrel aren’t much help, it appears the steel came from Midvale.
Ideas?
July 17, 2012
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Is there a WP proof mark on the barrel?
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
November 7, 2015
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JWA said
Is there a WP proof mark on the barrel?Regards,
No, “VP” only.
July 17, 2012
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TXGunNut said
No, “VP” only.
So if it was an R&R then it happened within the first few years prior to the introduction of the WP definitive proof.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
April 15, 2005
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Mike,
Does it have “OF” marked anywhere on the underside of the barrel? Is the caliber stamp on the top barrel flat, or on the left (10 o’clock) barrel flat? Without an R&R entry, the odds are in favor of it being reworked by someone other than Winchester.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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No “OF”, caliber marking on top flat.
April 15, 2005
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TXGunNut said
No “OF”, caliber marking on top flat.
OK, it apparently was not an early mail order barrel. The caliber marking on the top of the barrel indicates an early production barrel (pre-1908). While there is no proof, the odds are better than 50/50 that Winchester replaced the barrel before July 1905.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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That’s the way I was wanting to lean, Bert, but so early in production I didn’t have anything to support my theory. Here’s another thing that bothers me about this rifle; it has a pistol grip butt stock. No mention of that feature in Cody records.
Interesting rifle, makes for a good wall-hanger.
April 15, 2005
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TXGunNut said
That’s the way I was wanting to lean, Bert, but so early in production I didn’t have anything to support my theory. Here’s another thing that bothers me about this rifle; it has a pistol grip butt stock. No mention of that feature in Cody records.Interesting rifle, makes for a good wall-hanger.
I do not believe that Winchester would have omitted the PG feature from the ledger entry… very suspicious!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Bert H. said
I do not believe that Winchester would have omitted the PG feature from the ledger entry… very suspicious!
Bert
The only possibility I can think of is if the PG was considered an alternate standard feature at that time and I seriously doubt that…but again I don’t know. Other than the fact that the wood has obviously been sanded this appears to be an honest gun. It’s had a hard life but appears to be pretty solid with no alterations.
April 15, 2005
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Mike,
In my experience, Winchester always listed a pistol grip in the ledger entries, as it was an extra cost feature. While it is possible that it was omitted, I would not wager on it, especially in light of the barrel/caliber not matching either. If it were me, I would recheck the ledger records to see if maybe a mistake was made by the person who looked it up.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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I had it checked in April of last year and again during the Cody show this year. Same results.
April 15, 2005
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Mike,
Most serious collectors are going to view it as a non-factory reworked gun. There is simply too much about it that does not add up.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Well, I don’t consider myself a serious collector but I can’t refute that stance, Bert. I felt it was an honest gun when I bought it and it still looks like one to me. The most likely explanation is that it was indeed reworked outside the factory, good news is that I only paid a little more for it than it is worth.
Forgot to mention, has the cool express rear sight. Of course, no mention of that feature from our friends in Cody. IF the factory records matched the rifle and IF the wood hadn’t been sanded this would have been a pretty cool rifle. I think I’ll call it my “IF” rifle.
April 15, 2005
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Mike,
“IF” rifle is a good name for it. Any old Winchester is fun to own, and if you did not pay too much for it, enjoy it for what it is. I still own a few old Winchesters with unknown pasts, and I still like them.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
