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December 20, 2014
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I didn’t know whether to use the existing 218 Bee thread or start new one, so I started a new one, this one is for a 92.
I don’t own this rifle, a friend of my son does and he wanted to know what the rifle was worth. I told him I had no idea, but I
would ask the forum.
This man is in his 60’s and his father left him the rifle, the Winchester Collectors site said the rifle build between 1921-1928.
I know there are suppose to be no 92 218 Bees below 1,000,000 s/n.
Looking at the photos the forearm doesn’t right and I can’t say I have seen factory lettering on the right side of the barrel below
the rear sight.
Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks
Bill
December 20, 2014
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The front sight does’t look right, looks like a carbine front sight.
Bill
Bill,
How long is the barrel? Can someone check the bottom of the barrel (under the forend stock) and take a clear picture(s) of what is marked on it?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
The model and caliber stamping are different from previous 218 Bee 92’s. It appears more correct than my example. RDB
December 20, 2014
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Bert, it may be a while before I can get the information and photos, the fellow lives in Casper. My son is coming to visit me and he tried to bring the rifle
with him, but the friend didn’t want him to bring it.
I am sure we can get the information because the fellow to know about the rifle.
Bill
bert
I have seen several model 92’s in 218 bee. All of them had the same barrel address as the model 65 and, on some, you could see traces of the 65 under the 92. I don’t think any of them were actually factory original. In the Madis book, he has a picture of a questionable model 92 in 218 Bee but it has a model 92 address. Wouldn’t factory original 92 in 218 Bee have a 92 style address and not one like the 65?
sb said
I have seen several model 92’s in 218 bee. All of them had the same barrel address as the model 65 and, on some, you could see traces of the 65 under the 92. I don’t think any of them were actually factory original. In the Madis book, he has a picture of a questionable model 92 in 218 Bee but it has a model 92 address. Wouldn’t factory original 92 in 218 Bee have a 92 style address and not one like the 65?
There are at least three late production Model 92 rifles out there with what I believe are factory original Model 43 218 Bee barrels on them. All three rifles have barrel dates of “49” or “50”. The address marking on the visible part of the barrel is identical to a Model 43 barrel except for the “92” in place of the “43”, and the stamped markings on the underside of the barrel are identical to the 218 Bee barrels found on the Model 43 rifles. I believe that these rifles were assembled as parts clean-up in the year 1950.
With that stated, I have also seen remarked Model 65 barrels as you describe, and it is my belief that they are full on attempts at faking a Model 92 in the 218 Bee.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
There are at least three late production Model 92 rifles out there with what I believe are factory original Model 43 218 Bee barrels on them. All three rifles have barrel dates of “49” or “50”. The address marking on the visible part of the barrel is identical to a Model 43 barrel except for the “92” in place of the “43”, and the stamped markings on the underside of the barrel are identical to the 218 Bee barrels found on the Model 43 rifles. I believe that these rifles were assembled as parts clean-up in the year 1950.
With that stated, I have also seen remarked Model 65 barrels as you describe, and it is my belief that they are full on attempts at faking a Model 92 in the 218 Bee.
Bert
So, do you think those 43 barrel conversions are the only legitimate model 92’s in 218 Bee?
sb said
So, do you think those 43 barrel conversions are the only legitimate model 92’s in 218 Bee?
At this point in the research, Yes I do, but as many have stated in the past (and I agree), almost anything is possible.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 20, 2014
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Bert, sorry it took so long to respond, the fellow had a death in his family.He got the forearm off and the barrel is stamped with #50 and 218B
I believe the barrel is 24 in.
Does it look right to you
Thanks
Bill
Bill,
That is a Model 43 barrel. It could have been installed by Winchester sometime in or after 1950.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 20, 2014
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Bert, do you think this rifle could be a parts cleanup 92 ,218B.
Bill
William Cawley said
Bert, do you think this rifle could be a parts cleanup 92 ,218B.Bill
Bill,
It is possible, but not likely. That receiver would have had to sit in the factory for nearly 30-years. It is more likely that it was sent back to Winchester and rebarreled.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 20, 2014
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To anybody, I am thinking about buying this 92 .What do you think it is worth. The rifle looks to be in 65-75% condition.
Bill
Hold on to your hat. The Model 92 218 Bee I purchased at auction cost me $7,600 plus shipping and CA sales tax. (This is one of the three Bert has looked at). The matching 92 that is pictured in the Madis Book sold for over $21,000. There was a lengthy forum discussion about that 218 Bee and whether it was legitimate or not, sometime ago. When you encounter a rare Winchester that still has good or even better ‘original condition’ then the only limit is what the buyer is willing to pay to buy it. If someone else also knows what the gun is and wants it as bad as you, then the bidding war begins. I have been chided for paying ‘too much’ for some of my guns, but I remember what Mr. Madis said to me years ago, “Where you going to get another one? You never pay too much for a Winchester, you just bought it too soon.” Good luck, I hope you get it! RDB
Exactly ten years ago, Larry Orr from South Dakota had one for sale. He describes it as follows:
M1892 #270XXX, 218 Bee 24″ rd bbl, 1/2 mag bolt peep, this gun was factory converted w/a M65 bbl stamped over to a M92, have a copy of orig sales invoice from Win listing all the things they did, 98% Win factory refinish, not dbl proof gunsmith bbl, very rare to find w/orig invoice….. $3595
I agree, it is very rare to find with the original invoice. I would very much enjoy looking at that invoice. I think this provides fairly positive proof Winchester did a few of these conversions. Larry may have assumed that it was a stamped over M65 barrel (vs. a Model 43 barrel). I doubt the Winchester invoice specifically outlined what model rifle barrel they converted. But we don’t know what the invoice says. I assume it specified they refinished the rifle and added the bolt peep. Maybe someone here has the rifle (and the invoice)?
I have the exact same gun .I have had it for 25 years .It has the same barrel markings and proof marks on the receiver and barrel. same front sight . All is exactly the same
Dan G said
I have the exact same gun .I have had it for 25 years .It has the same barrel markings and proof marks on the receiver and barrel. same front sight . All is exactly the same
Dan,
Can you send me pictures of it (and please include the serial number, and the barrel date).
Bert – [email protected]
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert i do not want to sell the gun but does it have any value or is it just a shooter? Any information would be nice. Thanks Dan G
Dan G said
Bert i do not want to sell the gun but does it have any value or is it just a shooter? Any information would be nice. Thanks Dan G
It has value over & above a shooter. Exactly how much is hard to say, and will depend on the knowledge level of the buyer.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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