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November 19, 2006
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https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4094/1470/german-morgenroth-lever-action-rifle
I think Tom should buy it so he could tell us just how well it worked on deer.
November 7, 2015
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I suspect it would make an excellent hog, excuse me; BOAR gun…just add ammo!
Mike
February 17, 2022
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steve004 said
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4094/1470/german-morgenroth-lever-action-rifleI think Tom should buy it so he could tell us just how well it worked on deer.
That is a very interesting rifle. I certainly would like to try it. Is the 7.92 aka 8mm Mauser? I had an old friend from PA that swore by the 8mm. In fact it was the very first time I did any reloading, loading 8mm for him to go deer hunting with.
November 19, 2006
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Tom –
Yes, I believe it is the standard 8 mm Mauser. I can’t be certain if it is the J bore or the S bore version. I find it a very interesting rifle. It would be an interesting tangent to a Model 1895 collection. And yes, I think it would be a fine deer rifle!
I also found it interesting that it has a tang safety – a feature not appearing on a Winchester lever rifle until recent times.
November 27, 2013
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Believe it or not, Winchester made at least one prototype 1895 in 8 m/m Mauser. It’s here in the Cody Firearms Museum. I had the privilege of handling it a while back. The barrel is in the white with dimensional and rifling specs stamped onto it. An interesting concept, for sure. Mark
January 20, 2023
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According to the auction literature that German “improved” 1895 was made circa 1900, so I’d think the version of the 8mm Mauser for which it’s chambered is most probably the older, smaller bore version of the cartridge.
Maybe not but the 1906 version of the American Springfield thirty was adopted in response to the German changeover to the larger diameter spitzer version of the 8mm Mauser. I don’t think that changeover occurred until after 1903.
Maybe this modified 1895 was meant to compete in the military market. The Tzar’s armorers were very astute dudes and must have had their eye on fast operating. spitzer firing repeaters to equip troops of the rodina for some time, after seeing what the Turks could do with the Winchester 1866.
As we know, the vast bulk of all Model 1895 production was chambered in the Russian 7.62x54R cartridge — over 300,000 rifles to fill the Tzarist orders of 1915-16.
I’ve always thought the modern American gunwriter contempt for the Winchester 1895 was misplaced.
Anybody with knowledge of the history of the Cossacks, their well-deserved reputation for brutality and murderous antisemitism put aside, is aware they were not tolerant of poor cavalry weapons and gleefully took to their cliploading 1895 carbines and muskets. So equipped, they were formidable in battle.
Unlike infantry, skilled horsemen were not in the habit of wallowing face down in mud and were usually able to keep their firearms clean and functional. With sabers and pistols they were dangerous. With repeating carbines, much more so.
That the 1895 is uncomfortable to carry in hand hardly mattered to a horseman who would not walk ten feet if he could ride instead.
Union General Sherman both loathed and respected his nemesis, Bedford Forrest and told his superiors to advise Lincoln, “if necessary, bankrupt the Treasury but kill Forrest at any cost.” Forrest and his raider units were ghosts – everywhere and nowhere.
I have always thought Forrest would have given “half of everything I own and I’d promise the rest” to equip his men with cliploading 1895 carbines, had they existed. It is surely well for the sanctity of the Union that NBF didn’t have such things.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 19, 2006
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Zebulon said
According to the auction literature that German “improved” 1895 was made circa 1900, so I’d think the version of the 8mm Mauser for which it’s chambered is most probably the older, smaller bore version of the cartridge.Maybe not but the 1906 version of the American Springfield thirty was adopted in response to the German changeover to the larger diameter spitzer version of the 8mm Mauser. I don’t think that changeover occurred until after 1903.
Maybe this modified 1895 was meant to compete in the military market. The Tzar’s armorers were very astute dudes and must have had their eye on fast operating. spitzer firing repeaters to equip troops of the rodina for some time, after seeing what the Turks could do with the Winchester 1866.
As we know, the vast bulk of all Model 1895 production was chambered in the Russian 7.62x54R cartridge — over 300,000 rifles to fill the Tzarist orders of 1915-16.
I’ve always thought the modern American gunwriter contempt for the Winchester 1895 was misplaced.
Anybody with knowledge of the history of the Cossacks, their well-deserved reputation for brutality and murderous antisemitism put aside, is aware they were not tolerant of poor cavalry weapons and gleefully took to their cliploading 1895 carbines and muskets. So equipped, they were formidable in battle.
Unlike infantry, skilled horsemen were not in the habit of wallowing face down in mud and were usually able to keep their firearms clean and functional. With sabers and pistols they were dangerous. With repeating carbines, much more so.
That the 1895 is uncomfortable to carry in hand hardly mattered to a horseman who would not walk ten feet if he could ride instead.
Union General Sherman both loathed and respected his nemesis, Bedford Forrest and told his superiors to advise Lincoln, “if necessary, bankrupt the Treasury but kill Forrest at any cost.” Forrest and his raider units were ghosts – everywhere and nowhere.
I have always thought Forrest would have given “half of everything I own and I’d promise the rest” to equip his men with cliploading 1895 carbines, had they existed. It is surely well for the sanctity of the Union that NBF didn’t have such things.
Bill –
Interesting history – much I didn’t know. Thanks!
August 4, 2023
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Except for individual rifles are the Russian Contract 1895’s the most valuable? I know they made a lot of them but not so many survive. I’ve seen a couple go for over 10k recently.
March 31, 2009
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This is a question for Rob or Brad. I know they aren’t easy to find because, like the ammo, most all left the country.
September 19, 2014
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Greg, if I interpret your question correctly, I would say “no!”. Russian muskets are usually arsenal reworked at least once and not in good condition. They are not particularly hard to find either. If you should find one in exceptional condition, then you may be talking real money, though. Generally a good condition sporting rifle would beat the sales price of a Russian musket I should think. Add in deluxe version or .405 caliber,e tc, and you will get the idea. A US Musket in nice, original condition would be priced higher than a Russian musket by a good bit. Etc, etc. Generalities do leave room for exceptions all the time though. Russian muskets have gotten more desired in the last 20 years or less. That also is a factor. Have I waffled enough?! Tim
January 20, 2023
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One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
“And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
He chortled in his joy.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
August 4, 2023
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Tim, It seems that 1895 Russian contract rifles have taken a leap in value. I don’t think they come in good condition, they all are well used to the point of being used up from what I see. If you found one that didn’t look like it had been through at least one war I would have doubts on it’s authenticity. Many were refinished in the hands of private citizens. Those have lost some of their history, and value. I was curious if all 1895’s have taken a jump in value like the Russian contract rifles apparently have.
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