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1873man said
If the previous owner didn’t letter it he my of not known it was a 1 of 1000. The letter with it is only a year old.Bob
That would suck for them! Imagine buying it outright and then getting a letter and finding out! Like a Cobra barn find!
Jeremy P said
Assuming it originally had all the 1of1000 markings, I’m surprised the factory didn’t return it in the former design’s condition, but then again, it was 25 years old at that point and they weren’t a collectible “craze” just yet…
The gun when it first left the factory was most assuredly engraved with the 1of1000 inscription. I would imagine the owner in 1900 simply wanted a working firearm and likely didn’t want to pay the extra amount to have made up as it was originally. Likely a bad load caused a bulge in the barrel and the barrel needed replacing. It also had not been 25 years since Winchester had made a 1of1000, as a hand full were made as recent as 1892. One of which in 38 WCF, the only one made, also at the RIA auction.
Also the same engravers that engraved barrels in 1875 were still around in 1900, or their apprentices were employed at the factory could easily engraved a 1of1000 barrel to replace the old one. Likely a financial decision was made by the owner not to redo the original barrel.
For you guys that believe or say what makes a 1of1000 is the barrel engraving. If I recall correctly very early in production 1 or 2 rifles were sold / left that factory without any barrel markings and were sold to a customer as a 1of1000. I believe one was only engraved on the side plate and another not engraved at all. So Winchester sold a customer a 1of1000 that wasn’t marked with any markings on the barrel. Would not said rifle still be a 1of1000? In fact, wouldn’t such a rifle be the rarest of the rare? With only 1 or 2 having been do so by the factory.
I’m actually surprised that someone didn’t have the barrel fabricated to look like a 1of1000 before bringing it to auction. Especially an auction at RIA, were a lot of eyes will be on it. Anything done to alter it at this point will be known for now on.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Yet another 1 of 1000 that sold at this same RIA auction:
And a Buffalo Bill Wild West show M1873 exceeded auction estimate:
Some Colts didn’t do so bad either with this one topping out over a million, six:
Steve,
Thanks for posting, as I just got a chance to take a look at the auction in complete, and see what things sold for.
I think it was Bob Dylan that sang, “The Times, they are a Changing”! 
Anthony
steve004 said
Some Colts didn’t do so bad either with this one topping out over a million, six:
I do wonder how often that pistol has been shot? If it hasn’t been shot many times, its certainly been stroked a few times.
Reminds me of my father’s 2nd Generation Colt. He has one that has perfect timing. Based on the markings on that cylinder, the timing is slightly off on that million dollar gun. Beautiful pistol for sure, you can’t hardly beat Nimschke engravings.
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick said
Jeremy P said
Assuming it originally had all the 1of1000 markings, I’m surprised the factory didn’t return it in the former design’s condition, but then again, it was 25 years old at that point and they weren’t a collectible “craze” just yet…
The gun when it first left the factory was most assuredly engraved with the 1of1000 inscription. I would imagine the owner in 1900 simply wanted a working firearm and likely didn’t want to pay the extra amount to have made up as it was originally. Likely a bad load caused a bulge in the barrel and the barrel needed replacing. It also had not been 25 years since Winchester had made a 1of1000, as a hand full were made as recent as 1892. One of which in 38 WCF, the only one made, also at the RIA auction.
Maverick
That guy back in the day checked every box! Almost TOO MUCH for me haha
November 7, 2015
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Actually, Maverick, I seem to recall the barrel’s exceptional accuracy made it “1 of 1000” in the first place. That’s why I feel the barrel made the gun special then even though the engraving and the “1 of 1000” marking makes it special now, even above similar engraved guns. I doubt anyone who buys a “1 of 1000” now is going to do any serious accuracy testing but the original premise is why I feel the barrel is important.
Mike
Maverick said
For you guys that believe or say what makes a 1of1000 is the barrel engraving. If I recall correctly very early in production 1 or 2 rifles were sold / left that factory without any barrel markings and were sold to a customer as a 1of1000. I believe one was only engraved on the side plate and another not engraved at all. So Winchester sold a customer a 1of1000 that wasn’t marked with any markings on the barrel. Would not said rifle still be a 1of1000? In fact, wouldn’t such a rifle be the rarest of the rare? With only 1 or 2 having been do so by the factory.
The first 1 of 1000 was 3414 and entered the warehouse 4-15-75. 1 of 1000 Serial 3415 and 3419 also entered the warehouse on that date as well so I would assume they were made marked in the same way. Of the first 1 of 1000’s 3419 is the only one that has been seen and photographed and has “One of a Thousand” engraved on the sideplate. I would assume the first two were engraved in the same manner as well. I’m a firm beleiver that its the barrel that is the 1 of 1000 and it was advertised that way.
On another note here is another cheap 1 of 1000 coming up a 5 days.
https://bid.poulinauctions.com/WINCHESTER-1ST-MODEL-1873-UPGRADED-1-OF-1000-STYLE_i56144950
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Anytime you have to explain or talk about a gun the value goes down. As you talk you can see the buyer loosing interest. In this case at least two buyers listened and bid. Will that happen the next time it sells? T/R
November 7, 2015
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TR said
Anytime you have to explain or talk about a gun the value goes down. As you talk you can see the buyer loosing interest. In this case at least two buyers listened and bid. Will that happen the next time it sells? T/R
TR-
I think there at least two people who are very optimistic about that eventuality. Or maybe they feel this is a very unique rifle and they don’t share our apprehension about a rifle that requires an explanation. They may even like telling the story. My experience is very similar to yours, an “excuse” gun or one that requires an explanation, even with documentation, will always be a tough sell. I’ll concede that some folks are better at that than me. I prefer a gun that speaks for itself.
Mike
1873man said
The first 1 of 1000 was 3414 and entered the warehouse 4-15-75. 1 of 1000 Serial 3415 and 3419 also entered the warehouse on that date as well so I would assume they were made marked in the same way. Of the first 1 of 1000’s 3419 is the only one that has been seen and photographed and has “One of a Thousand” engraved on the sideplate. I would assume the first two were engraved in the same manner as well. I’m a firm beleiver that its the barrel that is the 1 of 1000 and it was advertised that way.
My point was that not all 1of1000s had their barrels engraved. As you stated Model 73 1of1000 #3419 is engraved on the side plate is shown on page 28 of Ed Lewis’s book. Another interesting detail about that rifle, is that its engraving inscription matches the description of the 1875 Broadsheet announcing the “One of A Thousand” Rifles. I agree #3415 may very well could be marked the same as #3419, but while #3414 #3415 & 3419 along with #3544 entered the warehouse on 4-15-1875, they all had different order numbers. #3419 was sold first on 4-22-1875 (the earliest sold 1of1000), then #3415 & #3544 on 4-26-1875 and later #3414 on 5-27-1875.
A #3414 is a known rifle with a replaced lower tang. As far as I know #3415, & #3544, also along with #4086, #4087 haven’t surfaced. #3548 was found in the 1950s search (also sold by Greg Martin Auctions) and has the aerial style marking. Then next #4103 has the aerial style marking. So in my opinion its hard to say whether if any of these other early serial numbers were engraved also on the side plate or on the barrel.
That said, Model 76 1of1000 serial #155 is noted in the ledger as “1 of 1000, not marked”. So that stands to reason at least two 1of1000s left the factory without a marked barrel.
On another note here is another cheap 1 of 1000 coming up a 5 days.
https://bid.poulinauctions.com/WINCHESTER-1ST-MODEL-1873-UPGRADED-1-OF-1000-STYLE_i56144950
Bob
Serial #27,184 for some reason is a popular number used to fake rifles.
I have seen at least one faked side plate engraved Model 76 and it was also a faked 1of100 to boot.
Unless this is Forum Member HENRY MERO’s great great grandfather’s rifle? If so, sad to say Someone got your inheritance Henry!
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Can’t be any great grand father of mine , back in the day Mero was spelled Mireault , when We were still Acadian French, but I wouldn’t have minded being left a gun like that anyway.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
The history of this 1873 does beg the question as to why Winchester did not offer to engrave the replacement barrel; and/or return
the original barrel to the owner. There probably is much history of this rifle that is unknown or at least a bit murky.
450 Fuller said
The history of this 1873 does beg the question as to why Winchester did not offer to engrave the replacement barrel; and/or return the original barrel to the owner. There probably is much history of this rifle that is unknown or at least a bit murky.
Who says that Winchester didn’t offer to engrave a replacement barrel? Is there any proof to the contrary?
More likely said owner of said 1of1000 didn’t want to pay for any extra work. Winchester as standard practice never returned original barrels back to owners.
I found an interesting note in the Hannagan Report that says, “The last 3 listed One of One Thousands, were discovered by Tom Hall, Winchester Gun Museum curator in a search for other information. No. 453,474 was turned over to a Mr. Russel who was a foreman of the Assembly Shop on July 1, 1900.” The other 2 of the 3 was shipped from the warehouse on December 7, 1893.
So in July 1900 just not six months prior to December 1900, when the gun in question was being re-barreled, the factory had in their possession one of the last 1of1000s made.
Other than the engraving work along with some other minor details, there isn’t anything special about the barrel of a 1of1000 from that of a standard barrel.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick Said,
Other than the engraving work along with some other minor details, there isn’t anything special about the barrel of a 1of1000 from that of a standard barrel.
Brady,
I’m in agreement with you, as far as the exterior of the 1 of 1000 barrel, and it’s possibility of being engraved, or even the looks of it, but each of the, 1 of 1000 barrels, we’re tested, and compared, to in batches of 1000 barrels, and the best test shooting barrels we’re pulled and put aside for a 1 of 1000 rifle. One of the selling points that Winchester used in their amazing advertising machine that they would use to promote their rifles with, and a very good selling point, that helped to make buyers want one, back in the day. A tested barrel that was truer than the others compared to, was a great selling point! IMO!
I’m sure that you’re aware of this, but just didn’t state it in you’re comment.
Anthony
Anthony said
Maverick Said,Other than the engraving work along with some other minor details, there isn’t anything special about the barrel of a 1of1000 from that of a standard barrel.
Brady,
I’m in agreement with you, as far as the exterior of the 1 of 1000 barrel, and it’s possibility of being engraved, or even the looks of it, but each of the, 1 of 1000 barrels, we’re tested, and compared, to in batches of 1000 barrels, and the best test shooting barrels we’re pulled and put aside for a 1 of 1000 rifle. One of the selling points that Winchester used in their amazing advertising machine that they would use to promote their rifles with, and a very good selling point, that helped to make buyers want one, back in the day. A tested barrel that was truer than the others compared to, was a great selling point! IMO!
I’m sure that you’re aware of this, but just didn’t state it in you’re comment.
Anthony
These are good points.
I recall that the 1 of 1000 (or 1 of 100) concept carried some controversy. It boiled down to Winchester advertising they were selling some rifles that were more accurate than others. This flew in the face of promotional materials that stated all their rifles were manufactured to exacting standards, multiple quality checks etc.
Anthony said
Maverick Said,Other than the engraving work along with some other minor details, there isn’t anything special about the barrel of a 1of1000 from that of a standard barrel.
Brady,
1 of 1000 barrels, we’re tested, and compared, to in batches of 1000 barrels, and the best test shooting barrels we’re pulled and put aside for a 1 of 1000 rifle.
Anthony
The math is wrong, maybe one in 300 average. Most likely just set aside barrels that shot strait. So the barrel is the difference. The marketing ploy made the rest of their guns look bad, that’s why they stopped making them.
The Hollywood movie made the gun valuable, Winchester made the barrel strait. I have shot two of these and they both shot better groups than my other 73s. So I like to think the 1 of 1000 barrels are better. T/R
TR,
You bring up some good points.
Interesting! I thought that was the whole premise of the 1 of 1000 rifle. As the 1 of 100 rifle also!
I wasn’t aware of the math being wrong. Did you get that out of the Mckracken Library?
Anthony
If you take 1 of 1000 over when they made the 1 of 1000’s there wasn’t enough 73’s made to get the number of barrels they sold. The first 130 1 of 1000’s were made by serial 68918. If you do the math they would of had to make 130,000 guns to come up with 130 1 of 1000 barrels or there was a high rate of rejected barrels. And if you look at the first 1 of 1000’s they had 11 guns sold when they got to serial 4126. It was a marketing.
The early guns that were targeted and had the group measurement in the ledger also disappeared quickly since it showed bad for some guns. I saw a gun with a 9″ group.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
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